How Can I Replicate ID Nuke Skill Better

[SpiritBreaker]

Edit: Updated map.

Hello,

Backstory:
I had a Titan tryout yesterday in ih, and Burn said the main reason I failed was because I didn't have good chain/sync nukes. Which is true.

So I made this map (see attached).

However, the chain/sync nuke is way too easy here.

Plea for help:
Anyone with advice on how I can replicate the ID standard nuke (like with Bub minis) better? @Neco perhaps.

Here I based it off Chain Lightning.

I think important:
- The fact that it's based off Chain Lightning in the first place.
- Cast time is currently
- Set "Stats - Area of Effect" to 300.
- Set "Stats - Casting Time" to 0.
- Currently "Stats - Cast Range" is 700. Definitely is lower in ID.

I think Unimportant:
- Removed mana cost.
- Made it not just a Hero ability.
- Made cd 2 seconds so you don't have to wait long while practicing.
- Set dependency checks off.

Thanks!

PS: Map took me about 2-3 hours to make. Had to looks somethings up. Never was good at map making.
Feel free to use the map for whatever.
All the colors and images and shit were me being bored. Kek.

[Neco]

Nukes in ID are now triggered, so not exactly like chain lightning.

[SpiritBreaker]

I had a feeling that might be so.

Do you feel like helping me replicate it?

All I need are some TIMINGS. I will do the rest.

Please just tell me a few things:
- How long does the nuke take to bounce from one target to the next?
- What's the bouncing range?
- What's the casting range?
- How long does a minion take to cast its nuke? (Channeling time after nuke command is issued.)

World Editor range and time units would be preferable.

I'll love you forever Neco. Rofl.

[Lynx]

why not walk around in normal id game and nuke critters? or test it with a friend?

[SpiritBreaker]

You know Lynx, sometimes the simple solutions never occur to you. But since we've come this far, let's finish it now!

I feel like someone who wanted to get a fruit off a 100 meter tree, and instead of climbing a hill where one of the branches with the fruit is easily reachable, I started building a pyramid to reach a branch with fruits.

Gonna finish that pyramid now, if Neco answers my questions.

[Burn]

I think this map would be good in theory, but in practise, you should always just play titan more in-game, because it'll take too long to program an AI to act like a player does in-game.

There are a lot more things to consider when chain nuking, which is:

1) When you should rush the minions forward, if you rush too early, he'll back early. If you rush too late, he'll back in time. It's different for mag/demo/faerie type building, and I won't delve into it.
2) You need to have your minions as close as possible to the base so that the distance is shorter. Sometimes with weak towers (or high lvl minions), you can get the minions so close that you can nuke the builder as he is building it where he's standing, or just a fraction of a second away.
3) Work on only nuking when every single minion is all in range of the builder. This is also different for all titans, but basically, 4 walls distance away from each minion (either double or triple nuke). This is because if the front minions stops to nuke, the back minions will be blocked and your nukes will not be well-sync'd.
4) Then, you have to worry about your click accuracy, one misclick will mean failure. What I do is I right click the front wall, then when they're all in range, I slowly click it so they aren't all synced. For some builders you need to sync it, but generally I don't do the tab nuke really fast, because it's more accurate on a moving builder.
5) Always have a pearl ready for WW units.
6) Some builders are near-impossible to nuke until you burn their escapes, like faerie, Radio and Ogre.
7) There's also the patrol minions, where you move your minions in and out of tower range, so you can even get closer to the base. You can also do this to try and scare the builders when your nuke is on CD or has no mana.

Additional tips:

- WW in fog, then nuking as he comes in. It'll be near-instant, because you can generally nuke from a mile away without using the move command, because you don't care about collission in WW. You also get a move speed increase from the windwalk ability.
- There is the case of WW nuking in vision, but that isn't recommended. Some oldschool players like to do this to prevent damage going in, and get a further nuke range on the last minion because there's no collision. I generally don't like wasing WW, because it means you can't use WW when minion rushing, which is a crucial part in sieging strong bases.

Mechanics:
Nuke range is around 9 units. Players are safe if they are behind 10 units (5 walls).
Bounce range is around 1.5 units. Builder are safe if they are behind 4 units (2 walls).
Cast time is irrelevant, since when it starts casting, it doesn't matter where you jump to, you'll still finish the cast (unless the builder goes in fog/WW).
Damage time is very small, but long enough for players to nuke multiple times on a 50/50 worker, and more than 2 times on an albatross.

-Burn

[SpiritBreaker]

Yet another extremely useful post, Burn. You're on FIRE today.

Spoiler!

Xaxa! Best pun EU!


NOT.

Meh can't nest Spoiler tags for further dramatic effect.

No, seriously though. These gems of the wc3 engine are hard to come by. And believe me, I've been searching.

Cast time is irrelevant, since when it starts casting, it doesn't matter where you jump to, you'll still finish the cast (unless the builder goes in fog/WW).

Does that mean that if I ww with everything and Q Tab all my units to nuke a target, and only the front two of my units are in nuke range, they will all get their nukes off regardless of the fact that some will be bounced further back after exiting ww, where they are outside nuke range?

[Burn]

Yes, you are correct. This is the main reason why titans WW nuke, other than the move speed boost. Move speed is also very important since 4.0.0 minion move speeds were reduced.

-Burn

[SpiritBreaker]

Updated and probably final version. If nothing else, you can practice your Tab Q speed with visible, instantaneous outcome.

Changes:
- Now with 50hp workers and one 300hp builder.
- Slightly better respawn trigger.

[Burn]

I just created a load save using debug version for nuke testing, works too.

-Burn

[SpiritBreaker]

I just created a load save using debug version for nuke testing, works too.

-Burn

Can you elaborate?
What do you mean "load save"? How does one access debug version?

Doesn't the AI in single player just afk at mid as builder? Idk what AI Titan does.

[Burn]

-debug mode is when you're the only player in the game (also !hcl for bots, but let's not get into that)

Main commands in debug mode I use:

-kill
-owner red/blue/teal/dg
-copy
-shareall
-unshare 0/1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/etc/
All the WC3 cheats

Then you just save the game.

You can also do this to make tower bases in single player to get the perfect buiding placement. (admittedly that's how I came up with the walling for top left and bot right, and aztec base)

-Burn

[SpiritBreaker]

Awesome, gonna be using that extensively from now on.

[Burn]

No problem!

-Burn