Panda Change

[Carnerox]

Discuss how you'd like to see Panda. These wont be added into the first 3.1.0, probably in 3.1.1.

1.) Stay as is.

2.) Stay as is and add new things.

3.) Completely change his gameplay making Storm a pure baser, Earth a defender and Fire a hunting-type. These elements are permanent and cannot switch between forms after choosing.

Any suggestions are welcomed!

[Mrpond]

The each form is a really awesome idea man but i think he will need alot of work to be balanced like that.

[Carnerox]

The each form is a really awesome idea man but i think he will need alot of work to be balanced like that.

3 separate forms in my opinion are easier to balance because I can give them more without having Panda be completely broken by having 2 others forms to switch too.

This also gives Panda more replay-ability and new things to do.

Some things I was going to do with Storm is give him 2 spell books one containing some abilities and then another one that contains "Storm Enchantments" which allow Storm to enchant his Storm Spires with buffs changing them into new Towers(Similar to Radioactive).

These enchantments could add things like an auto-attack that strikes an enemy with lightning which spreads out to nearby enemies causing damage or another enchantment that increases the towers speed and range at the cost of damage.

[Dr_CoolHaus]

"Don't fix something that isn't completely broken."

[Carnerox]

"Don't fix something that isn't completely broken."

Please explain more besides what you said.

Panda is a very bland unit with barely anything to him.

[aRt)Y]

"Don't fix something that isn't completely broken."

legit logic.

Giving him a one-time possibility to change into a form just offers so much more to the game than having him use storm 24/7 to use earth for walling and fire for the box or sometimes volcs.

[Carnerox]

I will be writing a rough draft soon for panda in the next couple days so you guys can post feedback and get an idea where I want to go with him.

[Shane9999]

Since is seems like everyone wants panda forms to be permanent... here would be my "rough draft" for how it could look.
Feel free to hate on me all you want



Panda Earth -
*When evolved has the same stats as unevolved panda did

*Tree walls removed, replaced with stone walls.

*Earth/Storm/Fire escape removed, replaced with Stone Shield... panda becomes invincible for 5 seconds (similar to radioactive)

* UPGRADE: Stone Skin - 8 tiers each adding 4 armor to the panda.
Each tier costs 250 lumber and 1 gold more than the last, starting with 250 lumber 1 gold.

*UPGRADE: Golem Walls - Same as currently.

*UPGRADE: Obsidian Golems - Unlocks an upgrade to golem walls, obsidian golems, making the golems max hp raised to 1250.
Upgrade Costs 3000 lumber 30 gold.
Walls costs 1000 lumber 10 gold each to upgrade
Requires: All Golem Wall Upgrades, Stone Aura

*UPGRADE: Stone Aura - Gives all towers/units in a 800 radius a +10 armor boost.
2000 lumber 15 gold

*ULTIMATE TOWER: Sentinel - Large golem tower which hurls boulders that deal 100 damage and have a 15% chance to stun the
titan for 2 seconds. When held as an item gives the holder a 15% chance to stun the titan for 2 seconds.



Panda Storm-
*When evolved has the same stats as unevolved panda did.

*Earth/Storm/Fire escape removed, replaced with storm surge. Increases movement speed by 250% for 5 seconds.

*Tree Walls removed, replaced with Storm Walls - same as most walls in the game.

*Storm spires are another basic tower panda can now build, they have only 800 range and do 35 damage.
With Advanced Storm Mastery upgrade, can be upgrades into....

-Static Storm Spire: Channels its lightning into static electricity, providing a +10% attack damage boost to towers in a range of 1000. Damage upped to 40. Costs 6g to upgrade

-Ranged Storm Spire: Upgrades range to that of panda storm's current towers.
3g

-Unstable Storm Spire: Has a 1% chance to do 20x damage.
4g

-Rapid Storm Spire: Increased attack speed from panda storm's current towers.
4g

-ULTIMATE TOWER: Storm Shrine - Deals 50 damage, very fast attack rate, and can attack up to 5 targets at once. When held as an item, the holder's attacks bounce to nearby targets, doing less damage with each bounce.
90g 2000 lumber.

*UPGRADE: Advanced Storm Mastery - Allows panda to upgrade his basic storm spires into other forms of storm spire
1000 lumber 5 gold.


Panda Fire -
*When Evovled, gains +300 hp and +5 armor, everything else stays the same.

*Earth/Storm/Fire removed, no new escape.

*Tree walls replaced with magma walls, same as most walls in the game.

*UPGRADE: Inner Flame - Panda ignites himself permanently, dealing 75 damage to all nearby targets.
10 gold 2000 lumber

*UPGRADE: Cone Of Fire - Attack that deals 300 damage to targets in a line, 60 second cooldown.
20 gold 2000 lumber

*UPGRADE: Fire Golems - Allows the panda to build fire golems, fire golems have the same stats as dranei's battle constructs. Each fire golem costs 1 gold 300 lumber to build and feeds 2 gold to the titan when killed.
20 gold 1500 lumber

*UPGRADE: Erupt - Allows the panda to erupt, gaining +1000 hp, +20 armor, +100 damage and increased attack speed for 20 seconds.
3 minute cooldown.
Requires: Inner Flame, Cone Of Fire, Fire Golems.

*ULTIMATE TOWER: Volcano - Same as panda's current fully upgraded volcano. Gives +30 attack damage when held as an item.
90 gold 2500 lumber



Misc. -
*Panda keeps all his normal builder buildings once he transforms
*Pandaren's box removed
*Vault of elements can only permanently evolve
*Remove battle panda upgrades
*Vault of elements costs 60 gold, since permanently being able to adapt to what is needed in a specific game is a bit overpowered for 20 gold (imo).
*Evolving a panda is free once you get a vault of the elements.

[ZimmeR]

Wall thingy way to op

[aRt)Y]

Panda Earth -
*Earth/Storm/Fire escape removed, replaced with Stone Shield... panda becomes invincible for 5 seconds (similar to radioactive)
Should definitely be something else than 5 sec raido-copy.
*UPGRADE: Stone Aura - Gives all towers/units in a 800 radius a +10 armor boost.
2000 lumber 15 gold
Mag's aura copy.
*ULTIMATE TOWER: Sentinel - Large golem tower which hurls boulders that deal 100 damage and have a 15% chance to stun the
titan for 2 seconds. When held as an item gives the holder a 15% chance to stun the titan for 2 seconds.
troll tower copy.

Panda Storm-
*Storm spires are another basic tower panda can now build, they have only 800 range and do 35 damage.
With Advanced Storm Mastery upgrade, can be upgrades into....
I didn't know 800 is now considered little.
-Unstable Storm Spire: Has a 1% chance to do 20x damage.
ID is no gamble game.

Panda Fire -
*UPGRADE: Erupt - Allows the panda to erupt, gaining +1000 hp, +20 armor, +100 damage and increased attack speed for 20 seconds.
3 minute cooldown.
Requires: Inner Flame, Cone Of Fire, Fire Golems.
Sounds kinda like mag ulti.
*ULTIMATE TOWER: Volcano - Same as panda's current fully upgraded volcano. Gives +30 attack damage when held as an item.
90 gold 2500 lumber
Sounds kinda boring.

Misc. -
*Remove battle panda upgrades
Why? It should still be open to earth or storm/fire depending on the skills.

Most of the ideas are either already in the game or - in my opinion - not really useful (therefore I haven't commented them).

I think each element needs something charismatic and not boring "storm = fast attack". The elements should keep something like

• storm slows units
• walls have % to make the attacker have a higher % miss chance (DotA tinker laser copy)
• towers have % chance to bounce lighting
• should only have towers
• perhaps controls weather on the map (strom -> (acid rain), global/area slow, lightning bolt for an area (see wall spell) etc.)
  
• earth walls have % to mini stun the attacker
• possible spell for the earth panda: grows up like tiny (dota ultimate animation), stunning in an aoe behind him and giving him a x unit boost (force staff-like) due to the avalanche
• should only have walls
  
• fire has no walls but fire traps which he can build on the ground (units can walk over it getting x dmg). Would look like the wc3 pit lord spell animation before he cast fire rain (or the other spell? Dunno. It is that thing which looks like it sucks something in).

tl;dr; keep the pandas element specific rather than having a mixture of copied spells and boring wall&tower builders.

[LightBlue-]

For Storm Panda

I really like your idea Arty. Storm panda should have a spell book of "weather" abilities. Tornado (Slow and Reveal), Acid Raid, (Slow and lower armor), Rejuvi Rain, (Heals allied structures, enemy units in range have lower health regen), Lightning Bolt (High Damage), Storms Speed (Permanent speed Buff, think of a weaker Hunts Aura), and lastly Eye of the Storm (I think each panda should have some sort of ultimate ability. The ability should be a toggle ability. While Eye of the Storm is toggled on, the Storm Panda builder cannot move, cast abilities, or build buildings. Towers within ~400 range gain a permanent ~20-30% attack speed increase. When Eye of the Storm is toggled off, the Storm Panda must wait ~2 minutes to reactivate it.)

Storm Panda's towers should have a larger range (900-1000), higher speed, lower damage (35-40 damage Megas) then other builder's towers. The ARC can allow panda's towers to gain the Critical Strike ability (same as before), and a % to multishot units.


For Fire Panda. I would focus more on support rather then being a designed hunter.

*Change to a hero builder* (Like Tauren)
*Base Abilities*
-Immolation (50-60 Chaos Damage base. Every level, the damage of immolation increases by 15-20)
-Flare Blitz (The Panda charges in a chosen direction causing 300-400 Damage to enemy units in his path. I'm thinking something similar to Fox and Falco's Fire Charge move in Super Smash Brothers. This abilitiy would allow the panda to pass through certain terrain. Think of the Faerie's blink ability)

*Book of Flames*

-Flame Traps (Like Arty said)
-Solar Flare (Pearl, ability with much less reveal)
-Fire Ball (Range damage Stun)
-Shield of Ash(Target allied unit gains an Anti-Magic Shield. This is similar to the Undead Banshee Tier 2 Ability. Make it last a random 5-10 seconds. The random aspect makes up for this ability allowing builders to rewall without threat of being nuked. Cooldown would be ~1 minute)
-Inner Flame (Target allied unit/building gains ~200% increase damage also their damage becomes Chaos. Lasts ~7 seconds. ~30 second Cooldown.)
-Flaming Passage (Fire Panda places a 1x1 flaming portal in a target location. Allied builders within ~600 range of the portal may choose to click the portal. If so, the allied builder teleports to the portal. For all you League of Legend players out there, its ability its similar to Threshes lantern ability.)
-Flame Strike (Range Damage Spell with AoE affect.)
-Burning Crusade (Ultimate, Burning Crusade is a toggle ability. While it is toggled on, the Fire Panda builder cannot move, cast abilities, or build buildings. Towers within ~600 range gain a permanent ~20% attack damage increase. When Burning Crusade is toggled off, the Flame Panda must wait ~2 minutes to reactivate it.

*Advanced Research Center*

-Provides the upgrades for all the spells listed above. Also it allows the spells to increase damage, and range.

[Carnerox]

You can't modify attack range or attack-type without it either becoming a new unit itself or making it permanent.

[LightBlue-]

Awww. I guess that restricts some ideas then.

For Earth Panda
*Starting Abilities*
-Shifting Sand, (15% Evasion)
-Stone Skin, (5 second invulnerable. Exact same as rad

Can build stone walls. (Same as now)
-Stone walls can be upgraded to Golem Walls. Golem walls have chaos damage.
-Golem Walls can be upgraded to Obsidian Golem Walls. These walls have ~150-300 more HP and +5 armor. Lastly these walls do more damage and gain 15% to stun for 1 second.

One thing that I've noticed is that rewalling with Earth Panda right now is a nightmare. Always get nuked. I feel this can be changed if you decrease the build time of walls by 1-2 seconds. Also below I have a few abilities that can make rewalling a bit easier. I've included a Shifting Sand ability and magic resistance.


Earth Panda has Book of Earth.

-Shifting Sands(Increase movement by ~30%)
-Magic Resistance(Similar to demos, ~50%)
-Defense Aura (5+). To compensate for the lower bonus, increase the range of this aura comparative to Mags defense aura.
-Tectonic Quake (Range damage spell with 85% splash damage)
-Rock Armor (150HP, +10 armor, and the user becomes spell immune. Lasts ~5 seconds. Similar to Ogres Bloodlust.)
-Quick Sand (Slowing Aura, like Mak)
-**EDIT** Give him Taunt.
-Shield of Stone (Ultimate, Shield of Stone is a toggle ability. While activated, the earth panda may not move, cast abilities, or build structures. While activated nearby structures within ~800 range gain +200 hp, and 5+ armor. When this ability is toggled off, it has a cooldown of 2 minutes.)

The Advanced Research center
-A lot of armor upgrades. (Like Morph)
-Additional HP upgrades. (Like Mag)

I think its important that we leave avatar like abilities out of the pandas reach. I think avatar abilities should be restricted to Mag and Tauren.

[Carnerox]

For me I'm liking all these ideas but the one I'm against is on-hit stun. That was suppose to be on earth panda orginally but it turned out to be to strong. Now imagine that on a wall.

[LightBlue-]

For me I'm liking all these ideas but the one I'm against is on-hit stun. That was suppose to be on earth panda orginally but it turned out to be to strong. Now imagine that on a wall.

That's completely understandable. Another idea could be to change the % to hit stun to a % to pulverize?