Version to host

[TimmyTheTauren]

Not a fan of latest version, would enjoy going back to last final version. Please vote with your thoughts.

(Don't close this saying we already had a poll. Yes there was a poll, but more has been fucked up since that poll.)

[Nigth2]

Well, you've got to think that @Neco needs people testing, right. Would you prefer to play a 'more entertaining' version, or play the one that is limited ATM but playing it and contributing to the thread would get a better and cleaner game? (think of 3.0.9d bugs and disbalances) yes, someone said this before.

[Haunt]

How is beta more bugged or unbalanced than 3.0.9d?

[TimmyTheTauren]

Go play a titan game, Withered.

It is clear ID is already dying, this beta process has only expedited the process. So yes, I'd rather play a 'more entertaining' version while the game is still alive.

I also don't understand Neco's stubborness of keeping the new completely shit hotkeys. Is it not easy to tell you should just keep them the way they were when everyone complains? They may seem more funtional on paper, but really it just comes down to what the playerbase wants and thinks is functional.

NOTE: I am all for the new ID version, and I appreciate all Neco's work on it - but for the love of God, don't ruin the ID we all know and love.

[Neco]

Use the custom keys solution then. I'm more than happy to help you through the process. So please, give me an actual issue that you have rather than bringing up crap that you're too lazy to deal with yourself...

The important part of the beta is that it's fluid, that it gives us a chance to bring forth new ideas and fix issues that have been in the game for a long time. If you have a problem with something, now is the best time to bring it up.

I always encourage feedback, as long as it's constructive and actually has a basis behind it.

[TimmyTheTauren]

I don't know how you don't see it... Hotkeys are an actual issue for the community.

You mention that we want hotkeys tailored to us. We don't... you want the hotkeys tailored to you. None of us had a problem with the hotkeys, we want the same hotkeys. It actually would have been easier for both parties if you just kept them the same. I understand there were a few discrepencies, but why you thought you needed to change them all doesn't make sense. Why didn't you ask the community about it?

Why did you change the hotkeys just to make all of us use a program to change them back to how we want them, how they should be? If you still think there isn't a basis behind this problem you're just being naive.

[ArkaTekK]

I've never heard someone b**ch so much Lol... & if you seriously think 3.0.9d was more balanced, jst LOLL!!!!. I could make this comment very long, and very in-depth but tbh you could find out everything stupid about your post and comments on here if you just re-read them &be honest with yourself while doing so.

"It is clear ID is already dying, this beta process has only expedited the process"
That's dumb to say that. Check/review ID game stats page and find out the facts for yourself. Don't go stating things you have little to no knowledge of.
"I also don't understand Neco's stubborness"
I don't understand your ignorance.

"Hotkeys are an actual issue for the community" "We don't..." "None of us" "Why didn't you ask the community about it?"
"for the love of God, don't ruin the ID we all know and love"
Don't speak for anyone else but yourself. &Clan Bti home of the Tryhards with social problems, isn't even close to 20% the entire ID community. When you keep saying "we", "us" ect. You literally are trying to make yourself sound bigger then what you really are. More then Half the ID community isn't even on ENT Forums.

!location
!load lw3xz
!pub
-Is Always there.
Get adjusted to change, stop complaining. I literally wouldn't be able to live with myself if I had a mentallity of yours.

&as far as Neco's responses to your comments, I'm honestly amazed at how passive and well he handles/responds not only to the bs that you say, but also of the other Wc3 players that seem to have a negative influence on the game in general.

[Neco]

There have always been problems with hotkey clashes, incorrect hotkeys, or just plain weird hotkeys. Now that they are consistent, all of those issues have been fixed across localisations of Island Defense. Now players from other countries can actually use "Panic" without having to click on it, due to it clashing. Isn't that a wonderful thing?

It's nothing to do with me, it's simply to do with fixing the issues in the map. I still try to use the old hotkeys sometimes and it sucks, but I understand that it's for the better.

Also, "How they should be" is relative. I've known a few players that enjoy customizing their hotkeys from the 3.0.9d style because they enjoy it more.

[TimmyTheTauren]

Arkatekk there is literally nothing you said that is beneficial to this conversation. The one point I'm going to bother clearing up is hotkeys being a problem for the community. Clearly I'm not speaking for every member of the ID community in saying 'we' don't like the new hotkeys. However there are enough of us that it is indeed a serious problem.

Neco, I mentioned there were a few problems with the hotkeys in 3.0.9d. I still don't know why you needed to completely revamp hotkeys to fix those few discrepencies. And yes, I'm sure a few players did enjoy differing hotkeys from 3.0.9d, but let's recognize that those few is different than the amount of people with problems now.

I don't imagine I'm going to change your mind at this point, so I suppose this is a lost cause. I have no desire to remap keys, so my last question is if you could implement an idea similar to -oldkeys that would actually work.

[Neco]

I have no desire to remap keys, so my last question is if you could implement an idea similar to -oldkeys that would actually work.

For an -oldkeys solution to work, I would need to create two of every ability with a differing hotkey in the game, with the only difference between the abilities being the hotkey and the tooltip associated with the object.
For each additional ability added to the map, two things happen.

• Load times increase exponentially.
• Widgetization techniques fail as there are too many abilities to optimize (which would result in longer load times by around a factor of 10).

Assuming these issues aren't a problem, I would also have to:

• Manage all of these keys individually in a list in the code to enable players to switch between them.
• Update all triggered abilities to be able to take their "old key" counterpart as an argument.
• Build a system to allow players to change to the old hotkeys at the start of the game (since in-game it wouldn't work as cooldowns are unable to be
• paused or transferred over).
• Manage the state of their keys to ensure that any new abilities added via triggers (there are a lot) would conform to the keyset that is desired.
• Ensure that there are no hotkey clashes with the old key set while still maintaining all of the "old keys" that you desire.

From that point on, I would also have to modify two of each ability every single time I want to make a balance change.



Or alternatively, you could simply download a CustomKeys.txt file, plop it in your WC3 directory, and make the hotkeys do whatever you like (I can never change them to be different from what you want) and none of the problems above ever need to be dealt with.

Which seems like the better, cleaner, more efficient system to you?

[Burn]

There are two main points:

Timmy's point: Which is that changing the hotkeys is too much for most veteran players to adapt to.

This point is valid, as it's bad for the Island Defense community as many players are quitting because of it.

Neco's point: Fixing the hotkeys fixes many hotkey clashes, even for other wc3 languages forever, if hotkeys are the same for every builder/titan.

Timmy's suggestion to make oldkeys work for every builder is not viable, as explained by Neco.

I think I stick with Neco's point for now, but for God's sake, pick a hotkey plan properly and stick with it, so we don't ever have to change again.

Something like:

"Q" For offensive
"E" for defensive
"R" for avatar
QWERASDFZXCV for spell book
"C" for spell spell book hotkey

QWERASDFZXCV for every other hotkey in shops and stuff.

That means that players only need to memorize one hotkey plan.

The other point that Timmy addressed: Titans.

Titans are really weak at the moment. Morph, troll, Demo and Radio are way too overpowered, that need nerfing. Pirate should always have the most DPS for towers, because he has the shittiest escape ability. Demo should be far easier to kill, his ethereal state should hang for at least 2 full seconds so that it's easy to chain nuke him on use.

Peace,
-Burn

[ArkaTekK]

"And yes, I'm sure a few players did enjoy differing hotkeys from 3.0.9d"
It's only a few people that dislike the new hotkeys.. The only hotkeys that almost everyone seems to hate is radio's and demo's. Make yourself aware of the truth, and go find out what people really think by asking players daily about what their opinion is on it. Once again, don't just go stating things you have little to no knowledge of.
"However there are enough of us that it is indeed a serious problem"
The thing is, there aren't enough of you..
"I don't imagine I'm going to change your mind at this point, so I suppose this is a lost cause"
It's not a lost cause..
!location
!load lw3xz
!pub

"Timmy's point: Which is that changing the hotkeys is too much for most veteran players to adapt to.
This point is valid, as it's bad for the Island Defense community as many players are quitting because of it"
you should edit that 'many' to 'very few'. It's not too much for 'veteran players' to adapt to, most the people that complain are just being too stubborn to want to accept any change.

New gen, pplz op lol.
That's how you can tell no one is from 2.8.5c days anymore.. I miss the homies..op

[Burn]

!location
!load lw3xz
!pub
No-one joins

Rest of your points are opinions, as are mine, which means there is no point to argue, Arky boy. I am not biased because I don't mind the hotkeys at all. Just making the two arguments clearer.

Have nice day.
-Burn

[ArkaTekK]

"!location
!load lw3xz
!pub
No-one joins"
I would be glad to show you how fast a game of ID fills up at anyyy time of the day within literally 2-5 minutes Through !pub. (like literally lol, come on skype one time or message me on east & I'll show you it lol. It's actually really funny xD, like at anyyy time of the day too haha its dope af). Sometimes when the lobby is filling up to slow like at 12-7am I leave it, and go host an ID game and get it started with fh almost instantly.

"Rest of your points are opinions, as are mine"
Opinions based off responses not only in a small circle but lobbys, lobbys, lobbys, lobbys, lobbys, more lobbys, and more lobbys. Anyone can go through change, it doesn't have to be looked at as such a big issue. Especially when the old version will always still be available. As long as Warcraft 3 stays active as it has, getting games through !pub will never be an issue.

[Haunt]

Just sayin' the subject of this topic is not hotkeys, but if we should switch to older version.

Looking @ poll, I'd say we stick with beta but I want to say something about hotkeys too.

Off topic:
People always whine about changes. Some people. Most people however, adapt to changes and after a while notice that the changes were mostly good. And those who don't ever feel comfortable about changes, will find other things to do. But that's a small minority