"Glitching" Discussion

[Burn]

Jumping into bases is a game-breaking bug that shouldn't even be allowed in the first place. Wall walking and item jumping across corners are just sneaky little tricks that makes the game fun.

-Burn

[Stealer]

I really don't get the big problem with ankh-jumping, its preventable just like item-jumping and wall-walking. And out of those three, wall-walking is arguable the hardest to block since you need to get fat bottom left or dump 30g(?) on a mirror.

Ankh/item jumping have reasonable counters unless you're an orc-builder in which case its a team game....

[Burn]

Takes less than one second to item jump into a base. Takes even the best players at least one minute to build a base from nothing, then jump proof it.

The perfect player wall walking or sheep tag walking only serve as stalling, since the perfect player won't get himself in that position anyway, and can win by other means, like basing.

-Burn

[ShadowZz]

If you really want to get into this conversation then here we go......

I have a suggestion for a new ability. I think we should give certain builders the ability to turn invulnerable from damage and make them unnukable every other second whilst constantly moving away from the titan and if people do it well they will even be able to move faster than him and block him going down paths at the same time so they can get away. I think it will really add to the game because invulnerability randomly being added to perfectly balanced builders without it can only be good!

Oh wait never mind we already have wall walking. I mean seriously. Who the fuck is going to justify wall walking as a "strategy". Pure retardism.

And before the herp derpers of ID who abuse wall walking jump in and say it's "easy" (<<<LOL) to counter. It's total bullshit for anyone who is new to titan or even those who are good at it. It shouldn't have to be countered. You shouldn't have to have minions or spend gold on items to counter something that isn't supposed to be a escape. It's not a skill. It's abuse.

Side note: I've spoke about this in mumble before and as for item jumping I'd rather it be fixed and simply add an item into the game to be a "push stick" as such. From a game developing point of view all bugs/glitches/broken mechanics should be fixed regardless and if it's something you like just add it as a "thing", "item", "ability". This would also solve the jumping into bases with items problem as well @Burn as it would only push you like 1x1 square.

For Ankh Jumping I agree it should be completely removed. It is yet again abuse off a game mechanic and it's sad to watch omnipotent end 8/10 of his titan games with an ankh jump.

TL;DR Please take the time to read it Wall Walking is retarded and people who claim to be pro abuse fast fingers. It's not a skill. It's abuse of a game mechanic. Item jumping should be a item. Ankh jumping should be removed.

[Burn]

Yeah, but all builders have it. If you want to ban wall walking, you also have to ban sheep tag walking?

It's a part of Island Defense history and it's only OP if it's against one titan. If titan has one titan + one minion, it is easy as fuck to counter it with just right click, "stop" or "hold position" at the right time, and an optional wand of the wind. Usually when you try to kill a builder, you can't kill him just by right clicking him anyway, you have to either use WOTW, WW, or trap him with minions. This applies to both good sheep tag walkers and wall walkers.

Good sheep tag walking can be better for survival, arguably better than a wall walker. Just check out some of these videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zis4eYZXVQI

-Burn

[ShadowZz]

Less "ban", more remove. ST walking has downsides whereby the titan is generally close enough to always kill the builder making feed and whilst pushing you away your still open to item skills, abilities such as nuke etc. I have no issue with it and have yet to see a situation whereby it was completely broken.

As for wall walking, any other game mode would or already has it as bannable. My point is it shouldn't need to be countered. Without wall walking you would use your escape abilities and if you don't have them anymore and your caught out then by rights you should be dead. You shouldn't have a random ability to evade all damage 24/7 and it shouldn't need to be countered with multiple units and gold spent items when they have already caught you out enough to remove your escapes and have potential to kill you. Get what I mean?

For the record I completely agree it is part of ID history @Burn However I think it needs to become a thing of the past for this game to develop. There's no point reinventing a game and giving it a spurse of life if theres still going to be "basic" abusable things littered throughout it.

Any bug/broken mechanic should go through one of the following:

1.Be completely removed as it is broken. (Wall walking, Ankh jumping)
2.Be completely removed and turned into an ability. (Satyr speed poke went through this process)
3.Be completely removed and turned into an item. (Item jumping imo)

[Sabishii]

At least, sheeptag wall walking doesn't make the builder invul at all.

[Burn]

1) You can't kill a decent wall walker with low delay with just one titan. You also can't kill a decent sheep tag walker with low delay with just one titan.
2) You can kill both easily with one titan and one minion, and an optional WOTW.
3) Builders are usually safe if they blow their escape, unless you trap them with multiple minions or blow multiple WOTWs.

Problem?

Sheep tagging and wall walking is just for early game or against bad titans. In in-houses, you can survive with sheep tag walking and wall walking. If titan corners you or wastes WOTW and you're not able to get away, blow your escape(s), and you're in the clear.

Builders shouldn't be risking their lives against decent titans by wall walking or sheep tag walking, but it's just part of the fun. By removing these things you're making island defense so much more boring with no skill cap, which is one of the biggest problems with Island Defense. To become the best inhouse player in Island Defense builder costs next to no skill. Just a lot of knowledge to memorize, micro-management is next to nil.

Since most players don't even play to win but to play to have fun, I think it's fair to say that something like wall walking is fine. Also, most good titans will know that most wall walkers are just minions or feed anyway.

TLDR; Wall walking makes Island Defense more fun, and is by no means OP. It risks the builder's lives mainly for entertainment, not for winning the game. It should be kept in the game. I'll make a poll to see how many thinks wall walking should be removed.

-Burn

[Haunt]

Sheep tag 100000000x easier than wall walking, just saying... and you can go and spill that bullshit about wall walking being easily countered by titan and one mini, but new players (<100-200 games) will not be able to counter it. We've all seen that.

[Burn]

New players can't counter my sheep tag walking either? Just sheep tag using choke points and jukes, I can go for days with Morphling against a new player <100-200 games.

It's true that sheep tag walking is easy to pick up and hard to master (compared to wall walk), but I think wall walking brings variety to Island Defense, without wall walking, you also take out jump basing.

-Burn

[Haunt]

Actually, I've seen you die, multiple times, when sheep tagging. But probly never when you wall walked. So whereas sheep tag is counter-able, wall walking isn't. As ShadowZz said, wall walking pretty much makes you invulnerable for .5seconds, block titan and moves the builder further away from titan.
Sheep tag is just blocking the titan. Eventually (if titan isn't completely retarded) he will kill the builder.

As I said in mumble the other day, all orc type builders (mak, faerie etc) should be changed to summoners (demo, draenei) instead. It would make more sense than human building (just think of having faerie using a hammer to build shit), would remove wall walking but you could still sheep tag (which imo is completely fine, it's not op as wall walking).

[Burn]

I don't die easy as Morphling when I'm sheep tagging against noobs, unless WOTW + multiple minions. Morphling is the example I made because he's tanky enough to survive a few hits, but isn't as OP as Tauren who can just charge away after first two hits. I was playing Morphling for maybe over 30 games in a row, surely I've made a few mistakes, but most of the time these days I die because I'm too lazy to deto WOTW.

-Burn

[ShadowZz]

I bet you 1million dollars you can't survive sheep tag walking against me or any other average or better titan. But I 100% guarantee I can't stop you wall walking. If you honestly think abusing a game mechanic is fun then there's bigger issues than I thought. It is only fun for you doing the wall walking and the other builders who now have free gold whilst he chases you forever. It is completely imbalanced and if you can't see why that is then you've completely changed my opinion on your knowledge towards game balance....

[Burn]

Sure, let's go. I'll sheep tag walk as Demo against any single lvl 2 titan, no bubo, v100c. If I don't mess up, I should be able to stall for at least 5 minutes. By then, other builders should already have 90g each, and be able to spearloc + hunter rush.

I'll take the challenge even with insane delay, no big deal.

For reference, here's me and omnipotent playing with beast-of-death with over 800 games at the time.

https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=5901113

Here's me juking against stealer:
https://entgaming.net/replay/view_repla ... 015000.w3g

-Burn

[ShadowZz]

You chose demo due to having nether is you fuck up along with auto summon walls. You dismiss bubo because you don't want stun. You only want lvl 2 titan so there's not enough damage to nuke you.

Abuse more Burn. I mean seriously that's pathetic. Even for your apparent standards.