How To - Kite/Pull and why you should improve your micro and check mid often

[SpiritBreaker]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fr6do_NBk5s

It was vs @Burn. 'Nuff said.

PS: Nice inhouses today btw. Thanks for the games everyone.
Next time I'll try not to feed a whole lb while running from main with builder. Kek.

Edit:
Note:

EDIT: ALSO! Now that I have given it thought, I agree that you shouldn't hold position ever, but rather get into the habit of checking mound whenever you have free time. (In light of this I changed title and original post.) We are now getting into the 150+ APM zone where you have a cycle going through your mind on what you should do next. This is getting to a Starcraft 2 level of micro soon.

[BeeKauzh]

This is a rare case where titan is not watching his camper for some unknown reason.
Never hold position mid camper is simply much better in every way @spiritbreaker

[SpiritBreaker]

That's interesting. Because I think good players in for some risk will go for wall-in using Fruit to aggro.

Edit: I think Faerie would be pretty good at it what with Blink and being able to dodge nukes with wall walk. And being able to ranged attack ofc. Practically made for the job. Lel.

/Discuss

[BeeKauzh]

That's interesting. Because I think good players in for some risk will go for wall-in using Fruit to aggro.

Wall-in wont work ever unless

This is a rare case where titan is not watching his camper for some unknown reason.

[SpiritBreaker]

Yes, HOWEVER!

If you watch the video, during the right side kite, Burn reacted in time and pulled mini back/attacked me a few times. Then he ordered the mini away as something more urgent came up.

My point is, unless the Titan has insane micro and is not rusty (which Burn himself admit that he is, just now in lobby) they will eventually slip up AND YOU CAPITALIZE ON THAT, as they have to pay attention to so much more, while you only need to pay attention to detonating feed and not dying, pretty much.

Thoughts?

EDIT: ALSO! Now that I have given it thought, I agree that you shouldn't hold position ever, but rather get into the habit of checking mound whenever you have free time. (In light of this I changed title and original post.) We are now getting into the 150+ APM zone where you have a cycle going through your mind on what you should do next. This is getting to a Starcraft 2 level of micro soon.

[BeeKauzh]

I'll see you immediately if you enter mid. No matter what I'm doing and at all times, and I'm sure its the same for many other titans
What I tried to say in previous posts is you basically "hope" the titan is rusty/afk/not trying.
If he aint one of those then you are wasting your time/putting yourself in a high risk of dieing.

[Burn]

Explanation: Actually I didn't use the minion at all, you got hit by auto-attack. The reason why I wasn't watching mid was because I was sieging. You could've just as easaily trapped the minion and attempted to kill it (although I admit it takes a while and I'll probably TP, or combo WW + TP together to save the minion.

Mechanics of auto-attack in ID:

Spoiler!

The unit will go around 15 units (around 1000 range?) until it backtracks using move until its starting position. The reason why the minion attacked your builder instead of aggro-ing towards the factory, is because the AI focuses an attacking unit over an attacking building, which is why you have to spam right click when sieging or you'll kill the suiciding builder.

This was a small mistake on my part, since I don't think it would've died. You could've taken advantage of that and tried to kill the minion. I've lost minions before while I was sieging, recently I either hold the minion if there's not much hunters or summons to kill the minion, or put it on move command in fog on top of the slope so I can WW kill anyone trying to gold.The reason why it wasn't on hold was because I didn't know you was alive, and it gets off hold when pearling.

An example of a decent trap would be the trap stealer did here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzcQoTw7V1M
Mechanics for the video: The minion at first tries to attack the builder. When the builder goes into a 1x1 gap and can't be reached, it instead aims the building. Then stealer could easily trap the minion with a wall (actually it's better to use a shelter and more upgraded walls at the back in case titan insta-kills the wall.

EDIT: Actually, I knew you was alive, that's why I had a minion camped there.

-Burn

[SpiritBreaker]

That's extremely useful to know @Burn. Where do you have this knowledge of wc3 engine mechanics from?

Is there anything that decreases an attacking unit's priority to below that of an attacking structure? Like harvesting lumber, repairing a building, building something, etc.?

[Burn]

Over 30,000 games of ID experience, I guess. I'm also a nutter for mechanics, if I don't understand something, I try to find a reason why it happens in theory, then put it to test in-game either in single player, or just when I encounter it. I'd say that I spend about 1/10 of the time in single player as I do on entid.

-Burn

[SpiritBreaker]

Over 30,000 games of ID experience, I guess. I'm also a nutter for mechanics, if I don't understand something, I try to find a reason why it happens in theory, then put it to test in-game either in single player, or just when I encounter it. I'd say that I spend about 1/10 of the time in single player as I do on entid.

-Burn

Good to know that I'm at the right place, surrounded by the right people, then.

I've always been interested in exactly how the wc3 engine works. And ID is the perfect map for figuring it out.

Edit: Just a disclaimer. If anyone ever wants to test anything, no matter how silly, I will pretty much always be available to help and test it. SpiritFryer@USEast.

[Burn]

Yeah, WC3 engine is tricky, I only just recently researched the mechanics on tower base item long jumping, that's why I wrote the guide. The problem with jumping into bases is that when you drop an item on a slope, a lot of the times it will end up not where you even placed the cursor. Just another reason not to abuse such mechanics anyway.

-Burn

[SpiritBreaker]

Hmm, what's the difference between reviving from ankh, and exiting ww, in terms of where the engine will place you?

I feel like this may tie in somehow with what Bee told me earlier about the Hunter being summoned for the first time and so getting stuck into rc (cos no position nearby to spawn) as opposed to being revived and never spawning, but rather the summoning timer restarting if no position nearby.

[Burn]

Reviving from ankh is unit based, whereas exiting WW is item based.

There is however, something called WW jumping, where you stack minions up on a corner gap with WW, then at least 2 or three will end up jumping through.

Of course, you can make all minions/titan jump through with a single item too, so there's that. Hardly any titans do this though, I think it could become the newest meta, I'll try to do it in-game.

EDIT: I did it in single player, I could get about half of the units to the other side with item jump. With so many units, you can jump over, but you could also just right click anyway and slowly burn your WWs down then chain heal when all minions are low, so this isn't much of a tactic. It's more of just to do it just because you can. Heh.

-Burn

[SpiritBreaker]

Yea ww jumping is not new to me (and neither is item jumping really, but I haven't done much experimentation), but I haven't seen anyone mention the former.

This was from last year:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_ijTjdCedE

I wonder if ww jumping and ankh jumping have different maximum jump distances.

Btw, for who didn't know, you can break surrounded units out of surround using ww jumping. I just haven't found a situation where it was useful yet due to the high cd of ww.
(Only thing that comes to mind is if multple of your units get walled in, you can get past the wall-in even at non-ij-able positions, or if one of your units is surrounded by demo's demons.)

[Lynx]

I wonder if ww jumping and ankh jumping have different maximum jump distances.

I'd be very surprised if there were any difference between all the jumps, so max distance is 12 walls iirc.