wand of avatar removal: the new op

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wand of avatar removal: the new op

Postby narbtit » Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:40 am

I would just like to complain about wand of avatar removal and how op it is. I was mag and fighting off titan with 8 minis. He used wand of op and removed my avatar killing me instantly. That is an ulta that is gone for 15g. Its too op vs one builder. And it works on cow too.

Avatar is all mag has, he has to stand in nuke zone to give his aura or his walls are ****ing trash 800 hp 20 armor thats not enough. Even with armor aura late game its not overpowered. Now I Have to play super careful because of this retarded wand you added.

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Re: wand of avatar removal: the new op

Postby wastedlandering » Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:42 am

Huh, this game sounds familiar.
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Re: wand of avatar removal: the new op

Postby Lynx » Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:42 am

it's fine if every builder doesn't feed 2k each.

man i miss the days were ppl didnt feed like paralympics qq

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Re: wand of avatar removal: the new op

Postby Burn » Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:38 am

Um, Mag is OP enough with his super walls, he doesn't need a buff.

If Tauren gets better walls in ARC maybe i'll consider ARC as Tauren when I'm Tauren solo basing. Till then, Merchant OP. It's not even worth getting ARC before GP because Merchant will help you in the short term since you don't even have enough lumber for AR unless you get lumber fed or G2L.

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Re: wand of avatar removal: the new op

Postby TimmyTheTauren » Tue Aug 11, 2015 6:18 am

I mean anyone who isnt a shitcan can pretty easily carry a base with wrath mag or rage tauren. This new item seems to be a needed counter.
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Re: wand of avatar removal: the new op

Postby narbtit » Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:03 pm

Mags super walls aren't that great at all. to go from 700hp 15 armor, for 100 hp more and 5 more armor its 350 lumber, more than the initial upgrade. Its not much of a difference at all. Then to give armor aura I have to stand close and get nuked.

Yes timmy if you are avatar you can carry the base mostly I agree. When facing people that aren't complete idiots you won't have ava.

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Re: wand of avatar removal: the new op

Postby SpiritBreaker » Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:25 pm

I feel like this is debatable, but there are a few things you can do.

Unless TItan had an overwhelming of feed and/or an abnormal number of minis, you can:
- Spam shields to increase the amount of nukeage needed (buy eggs if no successful mini kills). Mana is limited. Even with LE.
- Assess nukeage strength, and bait out Staff of Neut. 15g down the drain for the Titan.

If Titan got a lot of feed and/or has many minis, you shouldn't be able to carry a base.

I mean without staff, it's retarded how you can go out and dance with Titan and 6 minis and go back to base safely. The only thing TItan could do is block entrance with units in which case you just WW. Ofc Titan could have insanely sick micro and drop like 3 Chim items on each entrance and micro around low hp minis and kill you, but let's be realistic, that truly requires insane micro and lots of practice to reliably pull it off. And chances are you will escape anyway if you anticipate this happening (or won't even leave the base, and just rewall without being nukeable - which is retardation imo. Cos in pubs there could be 2 Polar Wrath mags in 1 base, alternating, which makes the base literally unbreakable short of like having insane dmg, Abysmal and ultimates.)
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Re: wand of avatar removal: the new op

Postby Sat » Tue Aug 11, 2015 3:47 pm

@narbtit play morph beast support then, won't run into that problem

anyway it seems to me a titan with 8 minions is expected to win in most situations regardless of that item

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Re: wand of avatar removal: the new op

Postby wastedlandering » Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:52 am

I do believe neut wand is a necessity to ID, as I feel everything should have a counter, and ID does a good job of having checks and balances.

Blink proofing base to prevent blink and titan jumps
Pearl/eye to counter windwalk
Deto to counter Titan magic effects
Hunters to counter healing wards
Healing wards to block off 1x1 retreat spaces
True sight counters eye and Titan WW
WotW to counter invulnerable tpers

I'm sure there are things that have no counter, but I can't really think of one off the top of my head. But my bottom line is, without wand of neut, a Titan will literally have to plow through the base with a virtually I killable brainless builder healing and rewalling with no possible consequence. Let's face it, you will not die in avatar while defending a base unless you have downs. There should be some possible consequence to standing 2 units away from Titan for several minutes, being immune to magic with a large amount of HP. Being forced to think about your positioning on Mag is a good thing, and being able to force the Titan to waste 15g just adds depth to the mind games of playing the game.

On a side note, claiming mags walls are not good is a joke. 800 hp and 20 armor is pretty damn good, especially with his other utility. It would be daunting to try and tear through 30 armor walls that get instantly rebuilt right after you retreat for half a second by an oblivios frosty Neanderthal, with no solution possible. I guess you have a small window between avatars to try and break, but God forbid you miss your chance and have to wait several minutes to try and break again.
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Re: wand of avatar removal: the new op

Postby Stealer » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:27 am

Why does a counter need to have a counter? This isn't magic.

Mag used avatar, titan counts with wand.
Titan used wotw, mag counters with deto.


It is obviously a useful item but don't forget that the vast majority of builders don't get avatar and yet they seem to do just fine?

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Re: wand of avatar removal: the new op

Postby Lynx » Wed Aug 12, 2015 9:16 am

Maybe reduce range of it to 300 so Titan can remove it if the magnataur decides to be cocky, but if the magnataur stays inside the walls he can't be targeted and give his aura to the walls without bridging a nuke

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Re: wand of avatar removal: the new op

Postby ShadowZz » Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:40 pm

If a builder runs out at a Titan with 8 minions then he deserves to die, under any circumstance. Also Mag has some of the strongest walls in the game by far?
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Re: wand of avatar removal: the new op

Postby Lynx » Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:59 pm

thats why i suggested range reduction. panda & gnoll & goblin walls are stronger iirc.

ShadowZz wrote:Also Mag has some of the strongest walls in the game by far?

also dat sentence lol

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Re: wand of avatar removal: the new op

Postby ShadowZz » Wed Aug 12, 2015 1:04 pm

Even if that's true, mag's are cheaper to get. 20g for 800hp 20 armor makes them the most cost efficient. Also there are 20+ builders in ID and being in the top 4 for walls is not a bad thing xD

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Re: wand of avatar removal: the new op

Postby narbtit » Wed Aug 12, 2015 3:42 pm

Hmmmm well I could have bought a shield of might instead of frost tower. Also that makes me just want to buy 100 hps instead of spending 35g on avatar. I guess avatar could counter nether wand too though, if he tried that when I was running back.

As for the range limitation to 300, that wouldn't have helped. In this situation I deliberately aggroed titan because he was ripping through walls too fast. I had no choice I had to attack/try to block him melee. I guess the mad happy melee days of mag are gone.

@sat yeah I might try morph beast. His walls are way worse and he would die to nether wand too though. Also mag is the laziest builder b/c you don't have to lumber.


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