Absolutely loving the new DotA map.

[DracoL1ch]

https://entgaming.net/openstats/game/8035257/
It is true that games last way longer, for example, look at this, me as naix and medusa were absolutely shitting on scourge, to the point that leshrac was crying about my rad-ancients strat and plugged himself out. The game lasted 52 mins and it was a pure stomp. On em this would be over in 25 at most. They never even got near on killing me and killed medusa only once early by accident. So, even tho new version is fun because I can troll as much as I want, I get why ppl are frustrated with the games duration. Pubs can't even farm on non em maps lmao.

so you're telling us that with extra gold this game would be any better? retards who cannot last hit would be punished much faster? oh wait, they would obtain free items and prolong this game until 6-packed.

Allstars gives to every player option to forfeit the game if they think it's unavoidable. Frogodota doesn't. You have no idea what you talking about.

[BiLyA]

Your perception is proly on a low level if this is what you understood from my post. What I said was that I can see why people complain about the game duration since they were used to faster games where they did not have to farm or ward or gank and I gave an example. I don't even play normal dota anymore on ent cuz I switched to lod which is an Allstars map anyways. Was that simple enough for you to comprehend, or should I try more to get on your elementary school mindset?

[DracoL1ch]

you can use whatever mindset is closer to your. your example invalid, and I just said why, no matter which team you're trying to defend.

[HELLRAlSER]

@DracoL1ch

Hi my friend, welcome

Been saying long time your map is 10 times better. They should at least hosted both versions for a while i guess.

[tyler11]

I just played a stacked horrible dota game and it still lasted 55 minutes... anyone who is a noob (which is 90% of players) is even more mad and hates the version even more because it takes so long and it's even harder for them to get items because gold comes so slow

(I am pro and i still think this new version is much more boring, not as fun, takes to long, and lags more)

Please switch it back since more people hate it, and everyone loves the old version where u can choose apem or regular mode,

thanks

[balancesheet]

https://entgaming.net/openstats/game/8035257/
It is true that games last way longer, for example, look at this, me as naix and medusa were absolutely shitting on scourge, to the point that leshrac was crying about my rad-ancients strat and plugged himself out. The game lasted 52 mins and it was a pure stomp. On em this would be over in 25 at most. They never even got near on killing me and killed medusa only once early by accident. So, even tho new version is fun because I can troll as much as I want, I get why ppl are frustrated with the games duration. Pubs can't even farm on non em maps lmao.

so you're telling us that with extra gold this game would be any better? retards who cannot last hit would be punished much faster? oh wait, they would obtain free items and prolong this game until 6-packed.

Allstars gives to every player option to forfeit the game if they think it's unavoidable. Frogodota doesn't. You have no idea what you talking about.

I think faster gold allows noobs at least the chance to get some items. As opposed to being categorically screwed.
And dude, people barely ever FF even when the game is obviously over.

For my feedback....

I think, on average, most of the balance changes are good. There are obviously OP heros (slark, geo, LC) who needed a nerf. And I think the new items (the ones that work, at least) are also good. Most of the gameplay additions (courier behavior, ward timers) are positive and adds new flavor to the game.

For negatives, the gamespeed is slower due to the lack of EM gold. Also, this version seems "clunkier". Idk if that has to do with how the map was "coded", but it just seems to respond slower and lag a bit more due to additional processing or something??? As developer you can perhaps lend insight into that.

Overall I think if EM mode was available, and the map code was spruced up a bit, it would be a winner. my 2 cents.

[sealman]

@dracol1ch

Some feedback on your map

1. The Camera Zoom options are a bad idea. I've seen your rationale about how MH generally has the feature and that there is no way to detect it. I disagree with having built in camera options though. Cheaters who use MH will eventually get themselves caught. Allowing camera zoom out is a huge advantage for long distance heroes, gankers like Bara, Lightning Panda, Sniper, and all of the blinking heroes. Empowering gankers isn't needed, especially since most noobs will never see or learn to use the camera options. I think it creates a big divide between skilled players and noobs, a divide we don't need to increase.

2. I'm not a fan of most of the new items, especially the new Lothars upgrade. That item didn't need a 2nd upgrade, it's powerful enough. No reason to add extra damage and hp on to it. Same goes for dagger, it's a powerful item and doesn't need any boosts.

3, I don't like the double hyperstone item. Allowing it to be consumed for a 1 time passive attack speed bonus is a bad precedent. Do not create more items like this. Items need to stay in the inventory to give benefit.

4. The nerfs to LC seem good. Im not familiar with the specifics of meepo or slark, but I hope their nerfs are well balanced. I've certainly seen less of them since we changed to your map. I welcome that.

5. Change wards back to buying 2 at a time.

6. Overall, I'm not a huge fan of your new graphics, like the new gem graphic or the new blademail graphic. I'm used to the old graphics, why change what isn't broken? Similar feelings about the map changes. I prefer the old 83d layout. I also dislike that buildings have been removed from the minimap. Makes it hard to know how close creeps are getting to your throne in critical situations. In general, I'm for more information being on the minimap, not less.

[balancesheet]

71 minute fkin game. i;m in it right now. we have 1 dryad rax left. they cant even push. 71 fkin minutes. this game should be over 30 minutes ago but my team wont ff.

update 1: they fully raxed. 10 miniutes ago. we dont even have 2 of their t2 towers. they still cant end.

update 2: they finally ended. 79 minute game. LMAO

[Burnt]

Well if there are people out there who can't play without em mode, maybe Draco can think about adding it back if its not too much trouble?

[darklord1992]

https://entgaming.net/openstats/game/8035257/
It is true that games last way longer, for example, look at this, me as naix and medusa were absolutely shitting on scourge, to the point that leshrac was crying about my rad-ancients strat and plugged himself out. The game lasted 52 mins and it was a pure stomp. On em this would be over in 25 at most. They never even got near on killing me and killed medusa only once early by accident. So, even tho new version is fun because I can troll as much as I want, I get why ppl are frustrated with the games duration. Pubs can't even farm on non em maps lmao.

so you're telling us that with extra gold this game would be any better? retards who cannot last hit would be punished much faster? oh wait, they would obtain free items and prolong this game until 6-packed.

Allstars gives to every player option to forfeit the game if they think it's unavoidable. Frogodota doesn't. You have no idea what you talking about.

the old version with em is not just the extra gold the towers are also stronger and the xp gained is much faster than this version
plus in this version some players hot keys brings their vision back to base which makes it practically unplayable.
Most players do not come here for a shittier version of dota 2 if they did they would just play dota 2.

So with that being said, I appreciate what you are trying to do trying to keep dota 1 alive, as a suggestion you shouldn't follow
the tracks of dota 2 and make your own updates and post them for all to see, ones that would keep dota 1 as still dota 1.

[DracoL1ch]

"some hotkey" = literally just Backspace. isn't that hard to rebind a single key for a while, that's just temporal issue.
about camera - there would be adjustments as well as a mode "no camera change", since we can now effectively track it.
any kind of balance - tell it to icefrog. we did nothing on our own http://d1stats.ru/faq?lang=en

if you don't think icefrog chose right way, go back to 5.84c, when he wasn't head of development. damn, that Silencer and Dusa were awesome, dont ya think?

[DracoL1ch]

For negatives, the gamespeed is slower due to the lack of EM gold. Also, this version seems "clunkier". Idk if that has to do with how the map was "coded", but it just seems to respond slower and lag a bit more due to additional processing or something??? As developer you can perhaps lend insight into that.

Overall I think if EM mode was available, and the map code was spruced up a bit, it would be a winner. my 2 cents.

Indeed its heavier due to systems we have to work with, but it barely affects perfomance of PC even from 2008. Yet we erased action delay which may make game slightly more responsive than usual, leading to incorrect visualisation.
-EM made many good players leave just because skill means nothing, literally just sit back and wait on fountain until you'll get 6 slotted. Noobs have no reason to get better if you allow them to do so. And we can't split playerbase anymore.
Basically you can always have 83 version for noobs only, why not, just dont try to pull everyone to the same level

[Suck_It69]

@DracoL1ch

What about spells visual effects, alot of heroes are missing them, example u meteor w/ invoker and theres no fire trace?
Leshrac ult also missing that flame stuff when enemy hero is in range and gets hit, only thing activates on that ult is some shiny ball on him?

And also why are you making oldschool dota 1 to dota 2, i get that new heroes would be nice, but to add that weird blademail effect is sh*t..
If people want D2 they will go play D2, why involve in old stuff?

Oldschool should stay oldschool!

[DracoL1ch]

@DracoL1ch

What about spells visual effects, alot of heroes are missing them, example u meteor w/ invoker and theres no fire trace?
Leshrac ult also missing that flame stuff when enemy hero is in range and gets hit, only thing activates on that ult is some shiny ball on him?

And also why are you making oldschool dota 1 to dota 2, i get that new heroes would be nice, but to add that weird blademail effect is sh*t..
If people want D2 they will go play D2, why involve in old stuff?

Oldschool should stay oldschool!

there are only _new_ visuals or replacements, but nothing has been deleted. make a video/screenshot showing that, but check your game's video settings before.
play 6.48b or 5.84c, whatever school feels better.
everything is improving, dota moving on too, if you cannot manage it - just leave or stay wherever you want. there are still tons of newbies/retards who dont wanna catch up with our world, so let it be.

[sealman]

play 6.48b or 5.84c, whatever school feels better.
everything is improving, dota moving on too, if you cannot manage it - just leave or stay wherever you want. there are still tons of newbies/retards who dont wanna catch up with our world, so let it be.

@dracol1ch

Calling us retards is uncalled for.

I don't mean to be rude, but I think you're not understanding the situation. If you don't like our feedback, fine, whatever. Its your map, do whatever you want. But there is no need for any of us to leave, we've voted and we're reverting to 83d. Its you and your map that can get lost.