Skill Level of players Decreased?

[ProjectPat]

Ive been watching multiple replays of late and have found that overall there just isnt a very large pool of actually skilled dota players. More so alot of people are just more generally educated in the fundamentals of dota. Not overall skill. Answers? Comments? Questions?

[Burnt]

no comments

[ProjectPat]

no comments

Commented for no comments? Interesting

[Burnt]

no comments

Commented for no comments? Interesting

commented for the potential comments you are going to get - either something that everyone knows already, or some bs that doesn't say anything

[Dhamma]

What Sir Burnt means is that this has been a continuing trend since dota 2 came out and will continue in the same direction.

BURNT

[Burnt]

ya also this thread is prolly gonna answer your question

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=120965

[ProjectPat]

Ive read the posts, guess i was looking for more direct feedback from current users and players to possibly spark a rise back into the community.

[KingKar]

well since its pretty obvious ill explain to you @projectpat you dont need to be "very skilled" to win pub games anymore.
but instead focus more on your map awareness and teamplay/ganks (means staying close to your team and not dozing off around the map)

stay within range of your defense use it to your advantage (towers, map vision, wards) and when your pushing a lane with no sight of enemy heroes ALWAYS carry a tp. what you call an "educated" player should already know its all about timing, staying close to your team and knowing when to push, and when to move back.

[nitromon]

More so alot of people are just more generally educated in the fundamentals of dota. Not overall skill. Answers? Comments? Questions?

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "skill?" Perhaps you can be more specific.

However, I have to disagree with the the comment that they're generally more educated in the fundamentals of DOTA. If anything I find most players have no understanding of the fundamentals of DOTA. I've met a lot of players with high KDR that has no concept of team work or the basic idea of DOTA. They just pick slark, void, sb, LC, etc... and feed off noobs thinking that will win the game. And when they meet a team that remotely knows the fundamentals, they get creamed and start blaming their teammates.

By fundamentals I mean:

- Teamwork always win the game. Teammates need to depend on each other, utilize their spells and abilities. Watch the minimap and respond. The team that responds the fastest typically wins. You will find games where every time you attack an enemy, 3-4 of his teammates show up. That's a good team.

- Hero types matter. 4 agils is not a good team. All ints or all str is not a good team. The best teams are mixed. But it is more so about hero efficiency than the actual type. There are 3 stages of the game which heroes fall under - early, mid, and late. All heroes are effective in at least 1 of the category, maybe 2. Some heroes can be effective in all 3. For example, most int heroes are early contributors, weak lategamers. So if you have a team of 3 agil and 2 str, you may not have anything to contribute early and the opposing team can squash you early. Seems like a lot of players do not understand Axe is an early to mid hero, weak lategame. Naix is an EARLY hero, sorta weak mid, but strong late. Spectre, in most cases, is weak until 30 mins into the game.

- Item matters! Item knowledge typically turns the tide of the game. I've seen bad players feed until they get their core items and then start owning. But the most important thing about items is they make up the weak gap of your hero's inefficiency. For example, spectre (which I play A LOT) is typically a late game hero with absolutely NO early game, some mid game. Rushing radiance with spectre is one of the worst ideas of ALL time. 3800+1350 item which only allows you to "farm more" and clean up 1/2 dead heroes is not a good investment. It still pushes his efficiency to 30 min after farming the right items with that radiance. A spectre running around with 700 hp and a radiance at 15-20 min is useless. Spectre can be strong early with a dagon or a mom, with basic items such as tread and RoA and poor man's shield. He can start farming heroes at this point, not even 1/2 dead ones but agil or int heroes who are full strength. He farms heroes to buy mid level items such as diffusual or mjollnir. Then farming late items such as heart, skadi, weapons.

Axe is weak lategame. However, items can make him strong lategame. I've only seen 1 axe capable of doing it. Most axes just buy cliche typical items all axes buy. They trashtalk early b/c they take towers in 2 mins and kills 10+15 heroes. Then by lategame he finds himself completely unable to handle strong heroes like naix, spectre, PA, etc... Most int heroes are pretty weak lategame, but right items still make them effective. Then there are heroes with multi-roles, which are switchable. Some int heroes, such as WD, can actually go tank. etc...

- Map Awareness and Basic Game Concept: The game is about creep pushing, hero killing, and timing. A hero that is constantly fountaining is not leveling or farming, so killing heroes is not always required. So some heroes are harassment heroes (BH, SA, etc..) and you use them to harass the opponent from farming. Killing heroes gives you level and gold while they lose gold and farming/lvling time, so try not to feed. There are times to push, times to defend. Sometimes when the enemy is pushing, you have a pusher like furion or something, and you see your creeps pushing close to their base, it is more advantageous to tp and push than for furion to defend, etc...

Best time to push is when you just killed 1-2 enemy heroes. It doesn't mean you cannot push other times, but it depends on your team make up and the opponent. But almost always, bad idea to Roshan when all 5 enemy heroes are alive. Jungling is also time sensitive and game sensitive. Team which jungles a lot typically loses b/c a lot of players who jungle are ones who got killed a few times, frustrated, and decided to farm jungle. Team needs to have coherency and consistency, working together. When lanes are being pushed, you need to defend and not jungle. Typically in those cases, creeps in the lane produces more gold and experience than the jungle creeps. Also, if opposing team has Slark, SA, Clinkz, etc... you do not jungle, b/c you're going to get ganked or sniped. I cannot stress how many times I've warned my teammates about this, but.... like always, nobody listens and a Slark gets his basher and skadi in 20 mins from all the free farming heroes in jungles.

These are just some of the basic fundamentals of DOTA. If more players are aware of these fundamentals, game would be far more pleasant to play.

[BiLyA]

For example, spectre (which I play A LOT) is typically a late game hero with absolutely NO early game, some mid game. Rushing radiance with spectre is one of the worst ideas of ALL time. 3800+1350 item which only allows you to "farm more" and clean up 1/2 dead heroes is not a good investment. It still pushes his efficiency to 30 min after farming the right items with that radiance. A spectre running around with 700 hp and a radiance at 15-20 min is useless. Spectre can be strong early with a dagon or a mom, with basic items such as tread and RoA and poor man's shield. He can start farming heroes at this point, not even 1/2 dead ones but agil or int heroes who are full strength. He farms heroes to buy mid level items such as diffusual or mjollnir. Then farming late items such as heart, skadi, weapons.

Yy spec need dagon eblade veil for max damage. Very strong carry with these items. Dagon 15 min 700 hp/300 manapool is very useful, radiance 15 min is soo useless. Also need mom with 700hp to tank. These are basic fundamentals.

[Burnt]

Well I guess I have an answer to the thread: players leaving for dota 2 - competitive level decreased - even spectre with dagon or mom owns pub. No skill level required while there's no competition lmfao.

[divinerape]

The skill level is the worst I've ever seen. Used to have usually 1 bad player in my team, wasn't too hard to carry. Now it's 2-3-4....

Worst part is ENT won't make a 1200+ bot where people can actually play a good game

[ProjectPat]

A spectre that goes dagon mom is just ridiculous in my opinion. I get a vangaurd on spec as well as blade mail which one first depends on the opponents you face, followed by 1 of 3 sny, diffusal, desolater straight into radiance or bfly, unless hp is a prob or armor vs a sf/vs going with assult ir shiva. Heart is only a necessity when playing vs hard tanks and your forced to take major abuse. This is what i mean in regards to Skill. A good player understands he/she needs to build their hero a specific way vs specific heros not only so but vs the Skill level of who they face. Times have changed and you can lead a team to victory with "ridiculous" builds that yesterday would be obliterated and damn near force you to play ai because of the losses endured unless you actually put forth effort to completely understand every aspect of the game. And any day 1 person could change the entire game by one click at the right time right place as a skilled player

[CheW]

The skill level is the worst I've ever seen. Used to have usually 1 bad player in my team, wasn't too hard to carry. Now it's 2-3-4....

Worst part is ENT won't make a 1200+ bot where people can actually play a good game

If only they had a league with above average players

[ProjectPat]

What would need to be done to create games for those only above certain elo's