Dota v6.85ne

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Letbell
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Dota v6.85ne

Postby Letbell » Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:49 pm

TL;DR: Changes is pretty decent, but doesn't affect the gameplay much, and pace of the game is similar to v.683d. It would be cool if we can implement this version of the map in the near future. =P


So I've been trying out the updated version of Dota v6.85ne on BK bots, and they were able to implement -em mode on their host-bot.
The lobby fill up really fast, and I thought people wouldn't play that version anymore because due to many changes such as non-em mode, heroes, and items.

What about the pace of the game? Is it similar to v6.83d?
    1) The pace of the game is similar to v.683d, but it could be even faster. This is due to creeps in lane & jungle doesn't have the same armour type in v6.83d, which makes carries easier to push the lane and transition into jungle for more experiences and gold.

What about changes to some old and new items?
    1) So far, I've seem cost of the recipes and item requirement that changes, but nothing major for old items.
    2) However, new items such as Shadow edge (an improvement to shadow blade) which counter PA's passive in the mid-game, but it can be counter with BKB, where all PA players should already had in the mid-game.
    3) Octarine; it's great on some heroes such as Lesh, Krob, Axe (with mjolner) and etc, but mostly Alchemist where he's pretty much unkillable if he had radiance + octarine. However, alchemist can be countered by Ancient Apprarition's Ice blast (ultimate) which prevent any source of healing.
    4) Item's orb effect no longer an orb effect, they're considered "attack modifier" where it improve your attack type & stack-able to all kind of melee/range mode. You pretty much can buy maelstrom + desolator on a clinkz, furion, phantom assassin or any carries, and does a ton of dps.
    5) Lotus's Orb; I gotta say, this is pretty much the most broken item that I've seem so far, and pretty much against any kind of direct targeted spells including hex, charge of darkness, finger of death, and etc. It's a pretty fun item to get, and can pretty much screw the enemy's team if they cast any spells during the item's duration. I havn't seen anyone use this in BK bot, and probably this is due to their lack of knowledge about the item.
    6) Glimmer's Cape: Cheap alternative to shadow blade, but this item saved your team-mates alot. I've tried out this item on sand king, centaur, or any semi-support tank and manage to saved a lot of people.
    7) Force-staff; Linken can now block activation effect of forcestaff, which kinda prevent techies using forcestaff on people into the remote mines. Although, it's pretty useful for any semi-support tank or carries to pick up this item if they wishes to escape a gank or re-position themselves in teamfight.
    8) Wards; 75gp for 1 Obs, and everyone can buy it, instead of wasting 150 gp for 2 compare in v6.83d where people neglect buying them, because they want to save golds.
    9) Creeps in lane & jungle are pretty powerful. I tried to cut lane with axe, but it took my 25% to 50% hp to actually clear wave alone. Which is kinda a pain in the butt.

What about pub heroes such as Legion Commander, Slark, Sky-mages, and etc?
    1) Legion Commander; in the first early level, and it's pretty hard for him to jungle because changes to creeps. Creeps in jungle are pretty powerful, and LC would have troubles farming in jungle in the early stage. However, he can transition into jungle whenever he pushes the lane, which prevents enemy's player to gank in jungle. If the enemies do tried to gank LC in jungle, they'll lose a lot of exp and gold while wave being pushes.
    2) Slark; He's kinda weak in this patch, because some of his base dps as been reduced and he's not that good in the mid-lane anymore. Players usually pick someone like...semi-support carries such as puck, qop, earth spirit (yes he's broken), and etc. Slark is still pretty powerful in mid-late game, but it's also up to the player knowing what he's doing if he intend to play mid-lane. PS: I've seen a lot of people pick slark in the off-lane where he gets more golds from lane + jungle.
    3) Bara; It's depend, if you can shut-down enemies's farm and control the lane. You're pretty much win the game. If not, you're pretty much useless for the rest of the game =(
    4) Meepo; Still the best #1 pub-stomping heroes in the game. No major changes beside people picking heroes that counter him in the game. Although...winter wyvern, nyx assassin, and clinkz is a really hard counter against him in the late game. Nyx assassin's agh and abilities allowing him to low down any target for like almost 5 sec. Winter wyvern is the usual counter to meepo, but if the main meepo is not under his ulti - he can be saved. Clinkz can shred meepo in the late game due to desolator + mjolnir stacking + crit which makes meepo died in like 3-5 shots.

What about other heroes?
    1) Sand king; king of laning and roaming and pretty much viable for any game. His 3rd passive skill is change quite a bit, but still work the same.
    2) Centaur; Get agh + refresher on this guy, and pretty much everyone on your won't die, because it grant 60% dps reduction to any hero that affect under centaur's ultimate.
    3) Razor; His ultimate can screw up any tower or rax. Early game is still pretty good
    4) Batrider; No more urn + oil stacking bug. Still pretty good in every game.
    5) Furion; his summon and necro does a lot of dps compare to v6.83d. His rat role is even more powerful, and his carry potential sky-rocketed thanks to desolator + mjolnir.
    6) iO; his regen got nerf a bit, it's not the same as in v.683 where you can literally get the same regen w/ discharge.
    7) Lycan; a hard carry that uses utility items such as book, helm of dominator, and etc. If Lycan get like necro book 3, he's pretty much can lock down the enemy's carries and win the game.
    8) Timbersaw; Eh, it's alright, same as v6.83 but he doesn't have that casting delay anymore
    9) Ancient Apparition; counter huskar, alchemist, and any heroes that rely on life-steal or regen =P Broken af.
    10) Others heroes; still pretty much the same and it's all depend how you played them.

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Re: Dota v6.85ne

Postby bill7907 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:00 pm

Interesting read. Thanks!

Is this version still being created by DracoLich?

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Re: Dota v6.85ne

Postby Letbell » Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:39 pm

bill7907 wrote:Interesting read. Thanks!

Is this version still being created by DracoLich?


Yes!

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Re: Dota v6.85ne

Postby bill7907 » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:08 pm

From what I have read about DracoLich'S version was that he was trying to go different ways from the direction they took in Valve's Dota (Dota 2).

If you played Dota 2, would you say WC3 Dota 6.85ne looks very similar or different?

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Re: Dota v6.85ne

Postby pinheadlarry » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:37 pm

Strongly against changing to 6.85.

One of the things I enjoy the most about 6.83 is the stability. I can take a break from dota for months and be able to come back and not have to read through pages of changelogs.

Secondly, dracolich is a MAJOR A-hole. Look him up on ent to see how well he handles any type of suggestions or criticism. Even if 6.85 is good now, there is no guarantee that he would steamroll a garbage change through later.

ENT tried changing a couple of times already and it never was received well. The fact ENTs dota fills much faster than Bk is a good indication that 6.83 is still resoundingly more popular.

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Re: Dota v6.85ne

Postby kunkka » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:52 pm

pinheadlarry wrote:Secondly, dracolich is a MAJOR A-hole. Look him up on ent to see how well he handles any type of suggestions or criticism. Even if 6.85 is good now, there is no guarantee that he would steamroll a garbage change through later.

ENT tried changing a couple of times already and it never was received well. The fact ENTs dota fills much faster than Bk is a good indication that 6.83 is still resoundingly more popular.

Those comments don’t make too much sense to me. Whether dracolich is an A-hole or not doesn’t have anything to do with the map he makes. Also if next version sucks, we can simply choose not to update it.

I thought the earlier suggestions weren’t accepted because “em” wasn’t abailable on those versions, which is no longer the case here.

So all you said was essentially your first point, aka you are against the change because you don’t want to read the change log

EdgeOfChaos

Re: Dota v6.85ne

Postby EdgeOfChaos » Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:01 pm

Well, BK is dead anyways upon the new patch. It's just ENT now.

and yes. dracolich is an incredible douche bag

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Re: Dota v6.85ne

Postby Peachtree » Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:14 pm

dracolich has no influense over 6.85ne apart having made the base 6.85 which NE version was refined out of. The guy who made this map is called Tufuuu.

Zeratul

Re: Dota v6.85ne

Postby Zeratul » Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:20 pm

Jeez, the entire QQ on Dracolich...

Did any of you ever watched close-by what happened when ENT attempted to host 6.85 the first time? I can understand Dracolich position tbh - he tried to engage ENT, and all he met was OMG TAKE THIS SHIT OUT, THERE'S NO EASY MODE - WE WONT PLAY A MAP WITHOUT EASYMODE, THIS MAP IS COMPLETE SHIT, FUCK DRACOLICH, FUCK ENT - WE WILL PLAY SOMEWHERE ELSE WITH -EM

That was basically the entire reaction from ENT community on his map - no positive (or constructive) feedback whatsoever, so you're complaining about him reacting bad towards kids who act like dicks? please.

And yes, TuuFuu or something, was the one who edited BK map to include -em for the noobs (i guess ent nabs will love it now oO since -em is there for them)

Regarding the map itself, i always loved it - the new items and the reworks that occured made the game much more fun (instead of the typical slark/lc/meepo picks, and unless you got a team that uses his brain, ur game is over before it starts)

On a sidenote:

Letbell wrote:7) Force-staff; Linken can now block activation effect of forcestaff, which kinda prevent techies using forcestaff on people into the remote mines. Although, it's pretty useful for any semi-support tank or carries to pick up this item if they wishes to escape a gank or re-position themselves in teamfight.


This already occurs on 6.83d - If you have linkens active, techies cant forcestaff you (reason why i get euls usually after aghanims xd euls -> disable linkens -> forcestaff after ^^)

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Re: Dota v6.85ne

Postby Letbell » Sun Dec 02, 2018 12:27 am

bill7907 wrote:From what I have read about DracoLich'S version was that he was trying to go different ways from the direction they took in Valve's Dota (Dota 2).

If you played Dota 2, would you say WC3 Dota 6.85ne looks very similar or different?


I would say it's similar, because that's where competitive meta comes in to play.

I really wish ENT has their own version of dota where it may exclusively for ENT community =P

PS: v6.83d is already exclusively for ENT community, but they could've done more only if the community ask for it :)

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Re: Dota v6.85ne

Postby xSAINTx1 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:28 am

You didn't mention the insane buffs invoker got. Some of his spells now cost more mana (ie. def blast meteor), but others have changed from magical damage (emp) to pure. Once invoker reaches lvl 25, defeaning blast becomes an aoe spell, basically giving him a 300 damage ravage, disarming all enemies in a screen-wide radius. Also, aghanims scepter gives all orbs +1, so lvl 7 exort sunstrike for example does 475 damage, but now will do roughly 550 at lvl 8 exort orb. Also, with octarine core, invoke is at a 1.3 second cooldown, and all of his spells except forge spirits provide lifesteal, making u pretty munch unkillable in the ultra-late game with a bkb. Also, all spells are decreased cd due to octarine, giving u insane cc, control and escape in teamfights and rat dota (split pushing with forge and alacrity). Ursa ultimate is also broken as fuck.

For those who want to play on 6.85k, come to clan FBG (useast only) on bnet around 10 pm EST to play on said map for inhouse. This is where majority of the better remaining ENT players play regularly.

EdgeOfChaos

Re: Dota v6.85ne

Postby EdgeOfChaos » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:48 am

Oh that's right. I remember when ENT changed to this map for a little bit and I saw ursa's ult. Ursa's new ult gives 80% or 90% damage resistance for a long time. I remember literally going 1v5 with... not too many items, sweeping entire teams. Those were some of the easiest games I've had and ursa's absolutely the most broken hero on the new map. just for this reason, we shouldn't switch to it.

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Re: Dota v6.85ne

Postby pharaoh » Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:35 am

Stay away from this poorly maken map. The fps go crazy when certain spells are being used.

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Re: Dota v6.85ne

Postby Faith » Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:52 am

Why not host both versions so players can choose which version they like to play? And can you add some DotA for europe guys? for me the us/ca games are unplayable through high ping.

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Re: Dota v6.85ne

Postby IWinIfyoulose » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:04 pm

@Faith that wont happen atm, the games fills slower now.


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