Songoku MH is back
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halo_mauler
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Re: Songoku MH is back
well he was banned for a year normally this is only for maphack because astros didnt use ticket ids it makes everything harder to track will speak with unitil about it
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halo_mauler
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Re: Songoku MH is back
Got a 2nd opinion on the case:
@RichardCoffee
3:00 slightly suspicious based on where silencer went to find ember, but if you watch closely you will notice that if ember had gone to the woods north of the tower, silencer would have had vision of that after turning back from engaging luna. Since he didn’t see ember, he can easily tell that ember has to still be somewhere in the trees south of the tower. Silencer must have noticed that and decided it was worth burning 2 tangos, which it turned out to be. Ember was also almost dead so its not surprising that silencer would try and flush him out.
5:20 silencer goes bot for a gank. 2 scourge players on bot stay back, possibly noticing mid is missing. Silencer stays in position to gank even though bot players are b. Doubtful he would be in that position if he knew their locations behind fog of war.
6:55 silencer is attacking creeps near mid tower while nerubian assassin approaches in ult with haste. Silencer doesn’t react and is easily killed. Would have seen it coming a mile away with map hack.
8:24 silencer is moving around near his mid tower, nerubian assassin is nearby in ult, silencer stays near tower for a few seconds, then as he is walking forward is engaged by nerub and easily killed again. Would have seen nerub with maphack.
9:48 once again killed by nerub approaching in ult.
11:29 nerub kills jugg at neutral creep spawn closest to mid t2 tower. Silencer doesn’t see him coming and doesnt react after jugg is dead. Probably would have noticed him coming if he had a map hack on.
13:30 silencer places a sentry ward in top woods behind t1 tower. Pings for invoker after sighting nerub run near ward. Pretty good example of him only sighting nerub when he was in sentry proximity.
19:35 nerub is approaching jugg at sentinel ancient creep spawn, silencer pings to jugg before nerub is visible from sentry ward nearby. Jugg instantly ults nerub when visible. Seems like better map awareness than silencer has shown most of the game, but its possible they spottedd nerub go into ult from ob ward at bot rune. Could see an argument about it seeming like mh, but im skeptical since there are numerous wards on the map at the time.
27:00 silencer is hiding behind fountain, seems to have given up.
Game ends shortly after.
Overall, I really don’t see concrete evidence that blue was map hacking. There was 2 “suspicious” instances, but there are possible explanations for both of them, so I don’t think they should be taken too seriously. It was a below average game for silencer, no attempts to deny creeps, little attempt to even last hit creeps, terrible map awareness, no missing calls for team mates, but short instances of what seems like him paying attention or trying. I have seen replays of people using map hack and their play truly shows it, for it to maybe be the explanation for 2 short events throughout the whole game seems unlikely to me
@RichardCoffee
3:00 slightly suspicious based on where silencer went to find ember, but if you watch closely you will notice that if ember had gone to the woods north of the tower, silencer would have had vision of that after turning back from engaging luna. Since he didn’t see ember, he can easily tell that ember has to still be somewhere in the trees south of the tower. Silencer must have noticed that and decided it was worth burning 2 tangos, which it turned out to be. Ember was also almost dead so its not surprising that silencer would try and flush him out.
5:20 silencer goes bot for a gank. 2 scourge players on bot stay back, possibly noticing mid is missing. Silencer stays in position to gank even though bot players are b. Doubtful he would be in that position if he knew their locations behind fog of war.
6:55 silencer is attacking creeps near mid tower while nerubian assassin approaches in ult with haste. Silencer doesn’t react and is easily killed. Would have seen it coming a mile away with map hack.
8:24 silencer is moving around near his mid tower, nerubian assassin is nearby in ult, silencer stays near tower for a few seconds, then as he is walking forward is engaged by nerub and easily killed again. Would have seen nerub with maphack.
9:48 once again killed by nerub approaching in ult.
11:29 nerub kills jugg at neutral creep spawn closest to mid t2 tower. Silencer doesn’t see him coming and doesnt react after jugg is dead. Probably would have noticed him coming if he had a map hack on.
13:30 silencer places a sentry ward in top woods behind t1 tower. Pings for invoker after sighting nerub run near ward. Pretty good example of him only sighting nerub when he was in sentry proximity.
19:35 nerub is approaching jugg at sentinel ancient creep spawn, silencer pings to jugg before nerub is visible from sentry ward nearby. Jugg instantly ults nerub when visible. Seems like better map awareness than silencer has shown most of the game, but its possible they spottedd nerub go into ult from ob ward at bot rune. Could see an argument about it seeming like mh, but im skeptical since there are numerous wards on the map at the time.
27:00 silencer is hiding behind fountain, seems to have given up.
Game ends shortly after.
Overall, I really don’t see concrete evidence that blue was map hacking. There was 2 “suspicious” instances, but there are possible explanations for both of them, so I don’t think they should be taken too seriously. It was a below average game for silencer, no attempts to deny creeps, little attempt to even last hit creeps, terrible map awareness, no missing calls for team mates, but short instances of what seems like him paying attention or trying. I have seen replays of people using map hack and their play truly shows it, for it to maybe be the explanation for 2 short events throughout the whole game seems unlikely to me
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dumpster_
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Re: Songoku MH is back
There's a brief period (0:24 to 0:32 in the youtube video) where ember could've left without nort seeing it.
There's no reason for nort to assume that he's still there.
Ember had to cut a tree to get to his final location.
In other words it's NOT a place where you would normally expect to find a hero. It's impossible to get to from either side without cutting.
But nort cuts straight towards it.
A player without mh would've cut tree "A" instead:
From there you can cut tree "B", and that would actually lead to a place where a hero could normally hide.
But again, magically he cuts towards a place that you can't normally get to, and there's no reason to expect ember to be there.
And note that 99% of players wouldn't think to cut any trees to begin with.
But if your mh is showing you that there's a juicy prize to be had, of course you'll "get the idea" to cut the CORRECT trees.
And finally, if you think that nort dying to ganks is proof of no mh, you just proved that you're completely incompetent in judging this matter.
Your argument is essentially that a player with mh must play perfectly.
Have you considered that maybe:
a) he got distracted by something
b) he thought he could survive the gank anyway
c) he intentionally doesn't avoid ganks 100% of the time 'cause that would be completely obvious and indefensible
The tree cutting isn't ironclad proof, but it's basically as close as you can get.
Together with his history of mh use, and other suspicious incidents, it's absurd that he isn't permanently banned.
There's no reason for nort to assume that he's still there.
Ember had to cut a tree to get to his final location.
In other words it's NOT a place where you would normally expect to find a hero. It's impossible to get to from either side without cutting.
But nort cuts straight towards it.
A player without mh would've cut tree "A" instead:
- qqq.jpg (142.83 KiB) Viewed 1522 times
From there you can cut tree "B", and that would actually lead to a place where a hero could normally hide.
But again, magically he cuts towards a place that you can't normally get to, and there's no reason to expect ember to be there.
And note that 99% of players wouldn't think to cut any trees to begin with.
But if your mh is showing you that there's a juicy prize to be had, of course you'll "get the idea" to cut the CORRECT trees.
And finally, if you think that nort dying to ganks is proof of no mh, you just proved that you're completely incompetent in judging this matter.
Your argument is essentially that a player with mh must play perfectly.
Have you considered that maybe:
a) he got distracted by something
b) he thought he could survive the gank anyway
c) he intentionally doesn't avoid ganks 100% of the time 'cause that would be completely obvious and indefensible
The tree cutting isn't ironclad proof, but it's basically as close as you can get.
Together with his history of mh use, and other suspicious incidents, it's absurd that he isn't permanently banned.
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EdteOfChaos2
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Re: Songoku MH is back
halo_mauler wrote:It was a below average game for silencer, no attempts to deny creeps, little attempt to even last hit creeps, terrible map awareness, no missing calls for team mates
Ah yes.
- Denying creeps
- Last hitting
- Calling miss for teammates
All classic functions of maphack, right?
Oh wait, just thought about it again, maphack doesn't do any of those things. So how exactly are these relevant in any way? No one ever said he was good.
BTW don't know if the MH has improved, but in the past, some MHs has not been able to show invis heroes on the minimap (similar to replays with fog off) so a lot of MHer still died to invis heroes like NA.
u can clearly see he went into the trees
No, you see him go near the trees, and then lose vision of him for 10 seconds. At that point he could be anywhere. Top trees, bottom trees, under tower, or retreated entirely. Dumpster did an actual analysis of it which I couldn't be bothered to do, take a look.
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RichardCoffee
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Re: Songoku MH is back
EdteOfChaos2 wrote:Oh wait, just thought about it again, maphack doesn't do any of those things. So how exactly are these relevant in any way? No one ever said he was good.
BTW don't know if the MH has improved, but in the past, some MHs has not been able to show invis heroes on the minimap (similar to replays with fog off) so a lot of MHer still died to invis heroes like NA.
I don't know either but a lot of the timestamps from @halo_mauler of him dying to ganks usually have other stuff going on and it doesn't seem to be someone just taken completely off guard.
E.g. at 9:38, he does die to nerub after a gank, but only immediately after a big team fight and a lot of confusion with nerub creating 2 illusions on the map (I assume mh shows the same minidots for illusions as normal heros) and nerub rushing him a bit unconventionally. Even with that, he hugs tower and places a sentry at pretty much 5 seconds before nerub is coming on him from total fog.
Or 8:24, keep in mind he still died retreating to tower and did move a bit weird (I assume to try to fake out the nerub stun).
Or 6:55, which is meaningless because he DOES try to slightly back when nerub appears near him invis, but he realizes it's too late because...nerub had picked up haste! Of course haste would make any gank far more certain and easier. Nerub closed the gap between him and nort from the river in like 3 seconds.
Interestingly enough, at halo's timestamp of 13:30 nort goes totally alone and vulnerable to enemy woods. At this time he can easily cross paths with nerub, who tped at top and goes invis. But he weaves in fog to avoid nerub coming by going a different path than him. He also places a sentry immediately right when nerub is in the area. This is the 2nd sentry he places immediately when an enemy invis hero is there in fog which he couldn't have actually known about.
And then Halo's timestamp at 5:20 with the gank... The enemy players were NEVER back when nort went to set up a gank. They were slightly lingering in the lane in fog, and silencer was just waiting the whole time in fog for them to move closer. Then he moves out exactly when they really do move out (in fog).
Keep in mind nort's not slark or something. He can't initiate a gank at all like this. He'd need them to commit to creeps or a fight, or get stunned by allies, and then he goes in. So he was just waiting for that moment, which never happened, and then moved out when they moved out...
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halo_mauler
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Re: Songoku MH is back
i didnt make timestamps you guys dont read, i got a second opinion and asked to him to evaluate the player and give his opinion on the mh case
@richardcoffee
not banning someone for maphack on the 3 instances you provided in 2 games
1 the hiding in trees
2 running by the ward
3 nuking creeps and hitting bara
@richardcoffee
not banning someone for maphack on the 3 instances you provided in 2 games
1 the hiding in trees
2 running by the ward
3 nuking creeps and hitting bara
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RichardCoffee
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Astros
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Re: Songoku MH is back
This is hilarious.
Any moderator who does not see evidence of maphack should not be a moderator.
Halo, there is something called "unlikely behavior" that constitutes most likely being maphack. The fact that it is a coincidence might work if you're Frank. It doesn't work when you have someone who is ban dodging, has a history of maphack, and is a subpar player making a very odd and circumstantial play. This is like expecting best_nick_ever to somehow find a player between the trees with no vision. Do you think any of this is plausible? A low IQ player does not magically do lucky high IQ plays. When has this player ever shown any ability to be a logical and rational player? So the only logical conclusion one could make is he was maphacking to play the way he did.
It shouldn't be difficult for you to see he's ban dodging. So if he's not maphacking, is he at least banned for ban dodging? This isn't rocket science. Unless you have evidence one can travel from Pakistan to China within a few hours every day, what is the difficulty here?
Whoever wrote that 2nd opinion is kinda implicating maphack. Again, cutting between trees to somehow find a player who could be in other more obvious spots is an unlikely move only justified by someone who is higher IQ. If the claim is silencer doesn't deny creeps and played a below average game because he is a below average player, how does he magically pull off a very abnormal and lucky move like that?
I already knew silencer was a maphacker which is why I would pretend I was going in one direction before using Vendetta and then as soon as he lost vision of me, I would go hunt him instead. He's a low IQ player so he probably assumed every time that I would be hunting the player in my direction and not to target him.
This player already admitted he maphacks and that it doesn't show invis long ago which is why even maphackers die to techies.
No disrespect to Halo because he's obviously dealing with some other issues and is rather a new DotA player since he has stopped playing for awhile but moderating a TD game compared to a DotA game is vastly different. TD games are pretty much as easy as it gets to moderating because the actions are pretty obvious (someone selling towers, someone not sending, someone not building towers, etc.,) DotA requires a level of basic knowledge and understanding of the player's actions and history. And unless you have that, your interpretation of what is considered ruining versus what isn't seems to be based on your own level of understanding and not of the actual game itself.
And yes, the quality of games on ENT, as predicted, is terrible because the ruiners now know that someone who has the ability to ban them likely won't. Until Halo realizes that threatening these players is the only way to get them to change, you will continue seeing these low level, low IQ, and low quality games.
Also, anyone who has a brain would chop the tree here and not where this maphacking cockroach was chopping it. And no sane player is going to waste tangos early into the game to 'incorrectly' predict where someone is. Do you really think this guy who has zero farm, is level 3, has 400 gold, is going to start burning money like that unless he knew for sure that he could catch someone? This is called deductive reasoning. When players do something out of the ordinary that results in a proven result repeatedly, then there is a high likelihood that they are cheating. Ban this guy or just admit that you don't know how evaluate the games. Anything else is nonsense.
My assumption is the person who wrote the 2nd opinion is the one likely given an opportunity to become a moderator. I would vote NO based on that answer. You need Frank/Saint123 or else it's a wrap.
Any moderator who does not see evidence of maphack should not be a moderator.
Halo, there is something called "unlikely behavior" that constitutes most likely being maphack. The fact that it is a coincidence might work if you're Frank. It doesn't work when you have someone who is ban dodging, has a history of maphack, and is a subpar player making a very odd and circumstantial play. This is like expecting best_nick_ever to somehow find a player between the trees with no vision. Do you think any of this is plausible? A low IQ player does not magically do lucky high IQ plays. When has this player ever shown any ability to be a logical and rational player? So the only logical conclusion one could make is he was maphacking to play the way he did.
It shouldn't be difficult for you to see he's ban dodging. So if he's not maphacking, is he at least banned for ban dodging? This isn't rocket science. Unless you have evidence one can travel from Pakistan to China within a few hours every day, what is the difficulty here?
Whoever wrote that 2nd opinion is kinda implicating maphack. Again, cutting between trees to somehow find a player who could be in other more obvious spots is an unlikely move only justified by someone who is higher IQ. If the claim is silencer doesn't deny creeps and played a below average game because he is a below average player, how does he magically pull off a very abnormal and lucky move like that?
I already knew silencer was a maphacker which is why I would pretend I was going in one direction before using Vendetta and then as soon as he lost vision of me, I would go hunt him instead. He's a low IQ player so he probably assumed every time that I would be hunting the player in my direction and not to target him.
This player already admitted he maphacks and that it doesn't show invis long ago which is why even maphackers die to techies.
No disrespect to Halo because he's obviously dealing with some other issues and is rather a new DotA player since he has stopped playing for awhile but moderating a TD game compared to a DotA game is vastly different. TD games are pretty much as easy as it gets to moderating because the actions are pretty obvious (someone selling towers, someone not sending, someone not building towers, etc.,) DotA requires a level of basic knowledge and understanding of the player's actions and history. And unless you have that, your interpretation of what is considered ruining versus what isn't seems to be based on your own level of understanding and not of the actual game itself.
And yes, the quality of games on ENT, as predicted, is terrible because the ruiners now know that someone who has the ability to ban them likely won't. Until Halo realizes that threatening these players is the only way to get them to change, you will continue seeing these low level, low IQ, and low quality games.
Also, anyone who has a brain would chop the tree here and not where this maphacking cockroach was chopping it. And no sane player is going to waste tangos early into the game to 'incorrectly' predict where someone is. Do you really think this guy who has zero farm, is level 3, has 400 gold, is going to start burning money like that unless he knew for sure that he could catch someone? This is called deductive reasoning. When players do something out of the ordinary that results in a proven result repeatedly, then there is a high likelihood that they are cheating. Ban this guy or just admit that you don't know how evaluate the games. Anything else is nonsense.
My assumption is the person who wrote the 2nd opinion is the one likely given an opportunity to become a moderator. I would vote NO based on that answer. You need Frank/Saint123 or else it's a wrap.
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halo_mauler
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Re: Songoku MH is back
Not banning for mh for the one suspicious thing
Will look to see if he is dodging when I get home
Will look to see if he is dodging when I get home
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halo_mauler
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Re: Songoku MH is back
And I have seen where he admitted to mh please link me
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Astros
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Re: Songoku MH is back
You really need me to do your dirty work?
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=146432&p=561988&hilit=restwell#p561988
Banned one year on May 14th, 2023.
https://entgaming.net/openstats/dota/?u=icenfire
(08:43 / Allied) VostokTheSmug: im fucking ur dead mom body luna
Also, this happened in the same game. If you checked the replay, you should at least banned this player for what is obviously an inappropriate comment instead of ENT hunting me down for saying someone should go walk their camel and that slapping their wives is barbaric.
SonGoku is a maphacker. IDC what you do or don't do but if you're going to show some integrity with the games, then you would follow through and get rid of him. It's quite obvious it is maphack and you're trying to use this one suspicious play as an isolated incident when he has a history of maphacking. I'll give players who have not been banned for maphacking the benefit of any doubt. Why are you giving a maphacker the benefit of doubt?
I'll give you the cheat sheet on players who you need to threaten or they will never change:
hooch: Tell him to play serious and stop trolling acting like she/her/they is immune to ban.
g1mly: only let him mid if no one else on the team wants it or else he will ruin and blame others.
jazzy3113: an average player who starts playing way below average because he starts chatting about how life is unfair to him. Tell him to focus on the game or else the game gets distracting.
saltysack: will plugpull and blame you for it
master_pain: will refuse to play if you say anything to him. Sits at tower and spams tuuuuuuurd.
d4k%: totally braindead. Nothing works on this guy so you might want to ban him incrementally.
hexar: Another braindead player who hasn't been banned because people mostly see him as a 500 ELO player and just expects the absolute worst from him but it might be time to start banning him so he gets the message.
You keep those people in check and you won't have to worry about most of the ruiners. But since players see that these players are getting away with ruining games, they are emboldened to test the limits of doing the bare minimum not to get banned and that is the result of these games: Players doing just enough not to get banned.
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=146432&p=561988&hilit=restwell#p561988
Banned one year on May 14th, 2023.
https://entgaming.net/openstats/dota/?u=icenfire
(08:43 / Allied) VostokTheSmug: im fucking ur dead mom body luna
Also, this happened in the same game. If you checked the replay, you should at least banned this player for what is obviously an inappropriate comment instead of ENT hunting me down for saying someone should go walk their camel and that slapping their wives is barbaric.
SonGoku is a maphacker. IDC what you do or don't do but if you're going to show some integrity with the games, then you would follow through and get rid of him. It's quite obvious it is maphack and you're trying to use this one suspicious play as an isolated incident when he has a history of maphacking. I'll give players who have not been banned for maphacking the benefit of any doubt. Why are you giving a maphacker the benefit of doubt?
I'll give you the cheat sheet on players who you need to threaten or they will never change:
hooch: Tell him to play serious and stop trolling acting like she/her/they is immune to ban.
g1mly: only let him mid if no one else on the team wants it or else he will ruin and blame others.
jazzy3113: an average player who starts playing way below average because he starts chatting about how life is unfair to him. Tell him to focus on the game or else the game gets distracting.
saltysack: will plugpull and blame you for it
master_pain: will refuse to play if you say anything to him. Sits at tower and spams tuuuuuuurd.
d4k%: totally braindead. Nothing works on this guy so you might want to ban him incrementally.
hexar: Another braindead player who hasn't been banned because people mostly see him as a 500 ELO player and just expects the absolute worst from him but it might be time to start banning him so he gets the message.
You keep those people in check and you won't have to worry about most of the ruiners. But since players see that these players are getting away with ruining games, they are emboldened to test the limits of doing the bare minimum not to get banned and that is the result of these games: Players doing just enough not to get banned.
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halo_mauler
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Re: Songoku MH is back
New mod will be off vacation on the 15th please post any more suspicious activity. Please link me to where he admitted to mh also. Havent been checkinng for dodgers was assuming that was being taken care of he didn't just start playing again played 100s of games in march april and may didnt look any further but im sure hes been dodging for quite sometime
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mk4r32
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Re: Songoku MH is back
[CPFM]: icenfire
[CPFM]: theres big multiple threads on you
[CPFM]: you gonna get kicked out soon
[ICENFIRE]: i dont give a fuck
[CPFM]: lol
[CPFM]: go and comment
[ICENFIRE]: not worth it
[CPFM]: dunno why you maphack
[ICENFIRE]: i dont
[CPFM]: its so noob
[CPFM]: and ban dodge on top
[ICENFIRE]: that i accept
[CPFM]: i saw the game
[CPFM]: where you cut trees to get ember
[CPFM]: LOL
[ICENFIRE]: ?
[ICENFIRE]: i saw ember thr
[CPFM]: BIG maphack bro
[ICENFIRE]: sure sure
[CPFM]: well enjoy while you can still play here
[ICENFIRE]: might wanna explain why i die to invis dagger heroes?
[ICENFIRE]: why i never back then?
[ICENFIRE]: if i know so much
[CPFM]: maphack doesnt show invi
[ICENFIRE]: how do u know?
[CPFM]: and they said ur a low iq player
[CPFM]: hahahahaha
[CPFM]: go read it
[ICENFIRE]: read where u have made some blogs on maphack?
[CPFM]: umer
[CPFM]: restwell
[ICENFIRE]: bla bla
[CPFM]: u not gonna last here man
[CPFM]: u a cheater
[ICENFIRE]: lol
[ICENFIRE]: this comminity is already dead
[CPFM]: low iq cheater
[ICENFIRE]: it s just a matter of when
[CPFM]: yea but ur not needed is what im telling you
[ICENFIRE]: sure go ahead get me ban
[ICENFIRE]: till then u can stfu
[CPFM]: im not a mod
[ICENFIRE]: !ignore cpf
[CPFM]: theres big multiple threads on you
[CPFM]: you gonna get kicked out soon
[ICENFIRE]: i dont give a fuck
[CPFM]: lol
[CPFM]: go and comment
[ICENFIRE]: not worth it
[CPFM]: dunno why you maphack
[ICENFIRE]: i dont
[CPFM]: its so noob
[CPFM]: and ban dodge on top
[ICENFIRE]: that i accept
[CPFM]: i saw the game
[CPFM]: where you cut trees to get ember
[CPFM]: LOL
[ICENFIRE]: ?
[ICENFIRE]: i saw ember thr
[CPFM]: BIG maphack bro
[ICENFIRE]: sure sure
[CPFM]: well enjoy while you can still play here
[ICENFIRE]: might wanna explain why i die to invis dagger heroes?
[ICENFIRE]: why i never back then?
[ICENFIRE]: if i know so much
[CPFM]: maphack doesnt show invi
[ICENFIRE]: how do u know?
[CPFM]: and they said ur a low iq player
[CPFM]: hahahahaha
[CPFM]: go read it
[ICENFIRE]: read where u have made some blogs on maphack?
[CPFM]: umer
[CPFM]: restwell
[ICENFIRE]: bla bla
[CPFM]: u not gonna last here man
[CPFM]: u a cheater
[ICENFIRE]: lol
[ICENFIRE]: this comminity is already dead
[CPFM]: low iq cheater
[ICENFIRE]: it s just a matter of when
[CPFM]: yea but ur not needed is what im telling you
[ICENFIRE]: sure go ahead get me ban
[ICENFIRE]: till then u can stfu
[CPFM]: im not a mod
[ICENFIRE]: !ignore cpf
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RichardCoffee
- Forest Walker
- Posts: 157
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Re: Songoku MH is back
halo_mauler wrote:New mod will be off vacation on the 15th please post any more suspicious activity. Please link me to where he admitted to mh also. Havent been checkinng for dodgers was assuming that was being taken care of he didn't just start playing again played 100s of games in march april and may didnt look any further but im sure hes been dodging for quite sometime
Why would anyone give more suspicious timestamps if you can't even judge the tree one accurately?
You said the tree one was "normal" while the 2nd opinion characterized it as totally normal and just "slightly" suspicious. Dumpster, astros, and edge all explained why this is false and not a normal play at all.
That proved that anyone giving more timestamps is just a waste of time until you clarify what standards you have for mh and judging anything. (Otherwise, I would give more valid timestamps). You keep repeating the same inane things of no substance over and over but are not actually listening to anyone or addressing what was actually in the replay. Also, again what reason is there to have the 2nd opinion be anonymous? This whole discussion is so frustrating. You write for the sake of writing, not getting to the bottom of anything.
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