Some needed changes to DIHL

[Cube]

Hello DIHL, admins, and ENT constituents,

I have played in DIHL for about a month now and there have been many great games.
However, there are a few points that, if addressed, would drastically improve the DIHL experience.

[I reference the DIHL guide: http://wiki.entgaming.net/index.php?tit ... :DIHLGuide]
1.) Rule 7: If a player disconnects before 15 min, the game must be drawn (using !draw). After 15 min, the players are allowed to vote (also using !draw).
Currently, games are drawn when a player disconnects before 20 minutes.
Either the rule has changed and not been updated, or the veteran player base is not aware of the actual rules themselves.
Thus, I would like clarification on which rule (15 vs 20) is correct.

2.) Rule 4: Pooling items is not allowed (such as buying clarity potions en masse and giving it to a teammate for them to sell).
This has not been an issue in my time of play, but I find this rule to be unnecessary and unwarranted. Selling items reap only half of the original cost, so this case will not occur often. But in the cases it does, such as late game play where cores and carries are 6-slotted and have no use for gold besides buyback, I believe pooling items to supports in this case is a legitimate strategy that should not be barred.

3.) Captaining: Arc Warden, Meepo, and Techies are currently auto-banned and do not need to be manually banned during the Hero Pick Phase.
I don't think a global autoban is necessary for these three heros. Meepo can be countered with aoe/ganks, techies can be very hit/miss, and arc needs to be shut down early before midas. Moreover, the mode CD has 2 bans in the beginning for a reason.
Therefore, I propose either:

no autobans at all

a different system where each captain gets to autoban 1 hero at the beginning, and then proceed to draft.

4.) The map: Dota v6.83d
Most other platforms for DotA such as RGC, Garena, and Eurobattle.net are playing on version 6.88x but here in DIHL, the map is still on 6.83d.
However, there are limitations to Battle.net that make it incompatible with the 6.88x maps (too large file size).
Thus, I propose that DIHL switches its map to the next most updated version, 6.85k.
For those scared of change, here are the key points: the terrain is the same, the heros are better balanced, item pricing is better (TPs are 75 g, obs wards are bought not in sets of 2 but individually for 75 g <- makes support a lot better), and there are 8 new items (silver edge, octarine core, and guardian greaves being the most important imo; if you're not familiar with them already from Dota Void games (RIP) or Dota 2, it'll take you only like 2-3 games to learn their recipes and what they do).
Maps are updated for a reason. As a Dota In-House League, I believe playing on the most current possible map is essential.

5.) Observor slots
Please fix the bots so that the observer slots do not bug the game. Observing is a great way for lesser experienced players to learn faster and take in the general pace of the game.

If you read this far, you have my thanks! Please respond with any input, feedback, comments, critiques, and concerns.

Best,
Cube

[Dhamma]

Reasonable requests.

But the reason these people play on ENT, is because they fear change like an infant fears giving up the teet. Every time the map has changed, there has been an uproar of crying and wailing. I don't see that it'll be different for the ih games.

[HolyBear]

Spoiler!

1.) Rule 7: If a player disconnects before 15 min, the game must be drawn (using !draw). After 15 min, the players are allowed to vote (also using !draw).
Currently, games are drawn when a player disconnects before 20 minutes.
Either the rule has changed and not been updated, or the veteran player base is not aware of the actual rules themselves.
Thus, I would like clarification on which rule (15 vs 20) is correct.

Rules state its 15min, we've been using 20min, but will now be correction, and players will be informed.

Spoiler!

2.) Rule 4: Pooling items is not allowed (such as buying clarity potions en masse and giving it to a teammate for them to sell).
This has not been an issue in my time of play, but I find this rule to be unnecessary and unwarranted. Selling items reap only half of the original cost, so this case will not occur often. But in the cases it does, such as late game play where cores and carries are 6-slotted and have no use for gold besides buyback, I believe pooling items to supports in this case is a legitimate strategy that should not be barred.

Agree, since selling items are half priced, item pooling should be allowed.

Spoiler!

Captaining: Arc Warden, Meepo, and Techies are currently auto-banned and do not need to be manually banned during the Hero Pick Phase.
I don't think a global autoban is necessary for these three heros. Meepo can be countered with aoe/ganks, techies can be very hit/miss, and arc needs to be shut down early before midas. Moreover, the mode CD has 2 bans in the beginning for a reason.
Therefore, I propose either:
no autobans at all
a different system where each captain gets to autoban 1 hero at the beginning, and then proceed to draft.

I Personally believe arc shouldn't be banned, but techies and meepo should. Arc can be countered fairly easily and shut down early match, meepo on the other hand levels and an extraordinary rate and can single handed wipe whole team, I know you must have required skills, but he snowballs really fast, fast enough to be considered broken. As for techies, I think he is just a hero that prolongs matches, because both teams have difficulties pushing.

I'd love to hear what you guys have to say about it.

Spoiler!

4.) The map: Dota v6.83d
Most other platforms for DotA such as RGC, Garena, and Eurobattle.net are playing on version 6.88x but here in DIHL, the map is still on 6.83d.
However, there are limitations to Battle.net that make it incompatible with the 6.88x maps (too large file size).
Thus, I propose that DIHL switches its map to the next most updated version, 6.85k.
For those scared of change, here are the key points: the terrain is the same, the heros are better balanced, item pricing is better (TPs are 75 g, obs wards are bought not in sets of 2 but individually for 75 g <- makes support a lot better), and there are 8 new items (silver edge, octarine core, and guardian greaves being the most important imo; if you're not familiar with them already from Dota Void games (RIP) or Dota 2, it'll take you only like 2-3 games to learn their recipes and what they do).
Maps are updated for a reason. As a Dota In-House League, I believe playing on the most current possible map is essential.

Agree, map should be updated.

Spoiler!

5.) Observor slots
Please fix the bots so that the observer slots do not bug the game. Observing is a great way for lesser experienced players to learn faster and take in the general pace of the game.

!It would be nice to have obs open again, maybe new map could possibly fix the current problem.

[aimskjs]

1. I personally like to change rule to continue to play with disconnect if game times is over 10 min or there is first blood before disconnect just same as DXD league. Additionally, Gproxy must be mandatory to play DIHL. NO GPROXY=NOT ALLOWED TO PLAY.

2. I do not understand why we banned pooling item for teammate. It should be allowed.

3. I personally like to auto ban arc and meepo for not ratting a game. If all players are t1, I would definitely disagree with auto-ban. However, we have lot of t3 players who are not good enough to counter those overpowered ratting hero. Techies shouldn't be banned anyway.

4. I do not have much experience of new map, but willing to play in new map.

5. It is technical issue after bnet patching few months ago. I wish someone fix the map to allow observe spot.

[HolyBear]

"Players are also recommended to install GProxy to help prevent disconnecting from the game."
"Players who disconnect early in a game (for example during hero pick phase, when it is clear it is not a rage quit) shall sit out the next game with no ban. The player must also install GProxy to help prevent disconnects in the future. For the remaining players, make sure to !draw the game before leaving."

Its required after first disconnect.

[aimskjs]

Also we need to time ban for disconnect instead of sitting out a game which is argueable if more than 1 game up. And need to specify exception that we let the player who dropped last game join next game as a 10th player with following rule that the player must give spot to a player who join after even though the player has been waiting for a while because it is punishment.

[Dhamma]

players who are not good enough to counter those overpowered ratting hero.

This is not a troll or flame post.

But if you can't see on the minimap that you are getting raxed....... Then why even play ih? stick to pubs.....

Rat is an objective oriented strategy. And a very legitimate one. After all, the objective is to kill the throne, if you do that, nothing else matters. If you haven't figured that out yet, maybe this isn't the game for you.

And there are plenty of heroes that are rather good at rat. Clix, LC, Sven, Drow just to name a few. Heroes that apply pressure are good too, like furion and tinker.

Honestly, i could care less if you keep them autobanned or not, just pointing out the flawed logic.

[aimskjs]

Well I know u are not trolling and I agree with you ratting rex is a part of strategy. I do not mean I can't see mini map and control the lane because I am not that bad. But a lot of players in dihl are not actually good enough to watch mini map LOL. We call those ppl are t3 players. Only reason I do not care of playing with them is to fill the game to start. If only t1 and t2 players are in the lobby, I would definitely disagree with auto-ban any hero in the pool. I miss DXD which didn't have auto ban and most of league players were very decent and better than current player.

[raizoir]

Valid and reasonable points from the OP and others.

The best way to test this is to do an initial trial of the new map and wait for feedback.

On captaining 1 autoban seems reasonably but also trying CM mode. Although currently there are a lack of people stepping up to captain (same people captaining) so this will also need some thought.

IMO gproxy should be mandatory regardless of first game disconnect, it takes 2 minutes to install - why would anyone want to risk DC and ruin a game?

[MuMiX]

I'm cool with #1,2,3. #4 not so much because we need to align with the map that all of ENT uses (unless all the bots upgrade). #5 i dont think can be fixed by anyone here.

Maybe magic/holy/born can start a vote on the above changes from the active members of the community?

[THR]

the new map is bugged for chen , you can actually move your own observer ward around ,

when u teleport your creep to yourself , all the wards you planted teleport with your creep on top of your hero .

i know this isnt a reason to not go for it , but i did found a couple bug in that map ,

money glitch
chen moving observer wards
game crash glitch , too easy with any blink dagger ( crash the game for everyone ) memory leak error


but i do think all the recommandachen that u did are on point !

+1

[Cube]

I agree with Aims about lowering the disconnect remake rule to 10 minutes.

GProxy being mandatory after 1st disconnect should be emphasized.

I pm'd MuMix for clarification about his point,

#4 not so much because we need to align with the map that all of ENT uses (unless all the bots upgrade).?

and he raises a good argument against updating to the new map. He says it is important to continue to grow the IH community, which involves recruiting from the normal pub games. I completely agree.
However, the fact is, pub games are EM. Pubs are already going to have a rough time transitioning from EM to non-EM DIHL.
Further, the jump from EM to non-EM 6.83d isn't that far off from the jump from EM to non-em 6.85k.
If growth of the IH community is really a priority, I would suggest that all the ENT dota bots be changed to the new map (which inherently does not have EM) so the general player base would not stagnate in free gold and experience. But I understand, as Dhamma points out, that much of the ENT population is afraid of change.
So change only the DIHL bot to 6.85k.

The chen obs ward bug is unfortunate, but I haven't seen chen drafted once in my 100+ games at DIHL. Not to downplay chen as a hero, but not many people know how to play it or play in a draft that utilizes it.
I'm not sure what you're referring to with the money glitch, and I believe the game crashes are extremely rare.

P.S. Interesting discovery.
http://forum.d1stats.ru/viewtopic.php?f ... +mode#p290
Nabo, an ENT mod from a couple years ago, persuaded DracoLich to remove EM from DotA. The irony.

[Astros]

1) Gproxy should be a requirement. no one keeps track of people disconnecting. If they still d/c and have gproxy, should be banned for one day (so bad internet can be ruled out). also helps with getting games started. Sometimes players will join the game, afk as captains are choosing teams, and everyone will wait for that person to spoofcheck. I do not know why gproxy is still not a requirement when it takes five minutes at most to set up.

2) Problem with arc/techies/meepo is not that they can be prevented but also because they can change the flow of what a competitive game should be. running and teleporting around the map is not fun to play against. Techies can be neutralized and create a game where a team can be outnumbered at the end and basically ruin a game.

3) new map would be cool to encourage more support players.

4) pooling items should not be allowed. if a team encourages one player to farm while the rest don't, it should be their responsibility to try and end the game before it becomes an issue of them having too much gold.

5) personally i think a game should always be drawn if a rax has not been taken down. Once it becomes a 4v5, it is a completely different game and players should not be penalized if the leaver can change the outcome of the game.

6) captains who roll the higher number should have the decision to pick whether they are sentinel or scourge and whether they want 1st pick or 2nd/3rd pick.

[DOTA_TRASHCANS]

Agree with all the points! I am a big proponent of having observers, especially in organized games, so having the ability to do that would be really attractive.