Drahque revouch

[Diablo_]

Hi all.
We have decided to treat Drahque the same way as we did HealByColor, as that is just fair.
As you might have noticed, Drahque applied for LIHL again (https://entgaming.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=85568). A bit over 2 years ago he was unvouched for maphacking in LIHL and also was temporarily unvouched several times for his behaviour before that.

We think our community deserves to know all relevant information about such cases, so here is a short summary of his mh ban and beyond:
1) I suspect drahque to maphack and asked the back then LIHL mods to make a screenshot test.
2) The screenshot test is done, during which drahque doesn't talk, unpauses the game, sends a screenshot after the unpause and after turning off his mh and goes offline when being asked to upload the screenshot from the first pause. click
3) I noticed that even the screnshot he uploaded from after the unpause showed his maphack and I saved that image on my PC. Drahque apparently also noticed this and deleted the screenshot again and later uploaded a faked/edited screenshot.
4) At this point I was the only one who had a hard proof of his maphacking and posted it on the forums after a while (I first saved the image just in case and only later noticed that it actually still showed he was maphacking). Drahque's response to this was to twist everything and try to convince other people that this screenshot wasn't from him and that I faked that screenshot just to get him banned. click
5) He later also uploads the .tga file of his second screenshot, the one he edited to hide his mh, from which could have also been told that he has edited it due to the poor quality of the minimap. Even with 2 hard proofs available he still tried to twist everything getting people to think this was all an evil plan from me to get him banned.
6) Eventually the mods checked the whole case and came to the only logical conclusion that he indeed was maphacking and just edited the screenshot and was lying about everything to get away with it. He then was "permanently" unvouched from LIHL (and maybe also a 1 year ban from Ent? Not sure about this). He hasn't admitted he did maphack at this point.
7) He applied again a bit over a year ago (https://entgaming.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=48730), still not really admitting he maphacked and only talked about failing a screenshot test and didn't respond to any maphack comment.
8) He applied again 1 month ago, finally admitting he did maphack (https://entgaming.net/forum/viewtopic.p ... 67#p328167)

As for HBC, we will only think about accepting Drahque if the vast majority of our community wants to give him another chance. Votes can be changed any time and feel free to also leave a post.

[ILOCOS_NORTE]

He has served his sentences in Diablo afaik thats hard punishment
Give him a chance, its been two years now.
If not he will do the IP thing and come back with other accounts

[aRt)Y]

If not he will do the IP thing and come back with other accounts

Which we can detect. Besides, that logic seems just wrong if you apply it to punishments in general.

[Drahque]

Seems the community has voted. I personally don't see why a trial chance is that hard to get, when I'm known to have the skills to play this game and have changed attitude. One mistake and I can be un-banned.

But I respect the Community's/people's decision. It's not my decision to make, it's the communities.

But I just thing "trial" itself is seen a bit too hard to get now-a-days? or am I wrong here?

[archol]

Though if we compare this case to HBC, he indeed served a huge ban already and the maphack thing was 2-3 years ago either - humans make mistakes and im sure he already learnt from his mistakes. In HBC case i was more or less the same opinion with Ilocos that he should reapply after serving a long(er) ban, but in case of Drahque he already got punished hard enough.

Thus in this case i voted for a yes (compared to HBC case whereas i voted for "i dont care") - though i dont think that my posting will change the outcome in the end anyways - but i rather give an input for future cases etc.

Thats why im not found of an anonymous poll as we saw at HBC vouching topic, except if the vote gets explained ...

As we see in the link https://entgaming.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=83584 HBC had dozen of support, and only Artichoke was against it with an reasonable explanation and then after the topic with the poll https://entgaming.net/forum/viewtopic.p ... 55#p336655 he got denied instantly (although there were few more than Artichoke who were against his reapplication, but more were in his favor in the topic - but not in the poll)

There might be an abusing of the polls as there might be also players who voted although they arent part of the league anymore (but still are listed as LIHL players)

My opinion: People should post their opinion with a reasonable explanation and not vote during an anonymous poll (if someone is the opinion of another comment you should like it)

[Drahque]

@archol LOL, did you safe that picture? or where you got it from?

There might be an abusing of the polls as there might be also players who voted although they arent part of the league anymore (but still are listed as LIHL players)

My opinion: People should post their opinion with a reasonable explanation and not vote during an anonymous poll (if someone is the opinion of another comment you should like it)

I'm not saying this to support my own case, but I'm pretty sure that is flawed or polls tend to make people just vote without thinking / reading too much, it's an "easier" way because you don't have to explain why you vote as you do, which you have to in vouch request.

Also, the thing is, Diablo only wrote the negative things. Not the positive such as:
1. It's 2-3 years ago, I've changed a lot

2. I do regret my actions, admitted it and swear it won't repeat, you can MH check me all you want.

3. I only ask to be given one last chance, a trial period, after serving a 2½-3 years ban.

4. I've been playing D3 in the meanwhile, helped over 10 million people with my guides:
--> http://www.diablofans.com/members/223051-drahque/builds
& I made this amazing guide that was used by millions of people in D3:
--> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... &sle=true#
Just take 5 seconds to look at it, someone who doesn't want to help doesn't spend months of hours of work on that. It says something about who I am now, not who I was.

5. I've changed my attitude and really worked on it, which made me go from ~1500's elo to now ~1800's+ elo.

6. I help out a lot new players in the games I play on 1200+

7. From now on, I've also changed my strategy, back then I would play LIHL for 10+ hours a day, but that's not healthy for your psyche. Now-a-days (also on 1200+), I just play 1-3 games and then take a longer break. It makes you play a lot better and also more chill / more focus. If you lose a game, it usually increase your adrenaline which makes next game worse.

That's just some of the positive things, I'm sure I can list more. All the negative things listed above on post 1, that was YEARS ago, it's the PAST, not the PRESENT or FUTURE. Focusing too much on the past is not a healthy thing, in real life if you think too much of the past, people get depressed. Live in the present, not the past, not the future, as the saying goes.

Also, most people who voted doesn't even know me or have played with me. How can you judge a person without knowing him? It's like walking in the park, seeing some guy with purple leggings and saying: "He must be gay, he is weird" or "he must be a murder" or something alike. The only way people who hasn't met me gets to know me, is by playing with me. Either on 1200+ or during a trial period.

[Don_Killuminati]

Imo, first diablo post is a good summary of whats happends in a unbiased way ;
About ur case, for me, the restraint i have is about manners and atitude, u did mh 2-3years ago, got a long ban , so i dont think that u gonna mh anymore.
Still not voted yet, but i see no heavy reasons to not give a trial.

[dweiler]

The reason for an anonymous poll is obviously because commenting that you don't want someone in the league is a bigger barrier than saying you want to give someone a second chance. Giving people an anonymous vote guarantees honesty more than 'political correct' posts. Besides, why is it necessary to give an argument for this? All the facts are on the table, the question is just: given all the facts, do you want him in or not?

[Diablo_]

About my OP:
As Donki says I've tried to sum up your case in an objective, neutral way. I simply wrote what happened, and not "only negative things". I also can't say whether you changed or not etc. so I obviously won't write anything of that sort

About posts in vouch requests vs poll results: imo it's more likely that many people don't like to publicly write negative things about players, while they do vote since it is anonymous.

[Drahque]

About my OP:
As Donki says I've tried to sum up your case in an objective, neutral way. I simply wrote what happened, and not "only negative things". I also can't say whether you changed or not etc. so I obviously won't write anything of that sort

I agree, you did a very good summary, I couldn't have done it better and keep it as simple as that.

About posts in vouch requests vs poll results: imo it's more likely that many people don't like to publicly write negative things about players, while they do vote since it is anonymous.

That's true. But that doesn't mean is a "well thought decision" (the votes), I know from myself, polls I just click yes or no, without thinking too much about it or looking good into the case. After all, it is voting on someone you've never met or played with, how is that a fair chance? In a trial they actually get to meet me, or in 1200+ as well. But many people in Lihl doesn't play 1200+ and the few that does is not that common. So how will they get to know me before voting?

[Drawkward]

I don't know you, but i also guess 2 years ban is enough time to overthink his actions from the past.... give him a trial and all ppl can have a closer look to his gameplay/behaviour and see if it's worth to keep him in the league

[archol]

@archol LOL, did you safe that picture? or where you got it from?

Hahaha, no - i just copied it from one of the links Diablo posted, as i posted it there too. I remember you posted it once and then i forwarded it.

About the poll vs comment - i agree that staying anonymous is safer than commenting as it doesnt display your vote and protect your anonymity, though theres nothing to fear in commenting in the case of LIHL. If people are still "scared" (or similar) due whatever reason i already suggested in the LIHL admin section to send a private message to the LIHL mods/admins (as nabo. did something similar in the past in the case of HBC as far i remember)

I doubt anyone threaten the player to post a wrong statement in favor/against someone or that there will be effects afterwards (like revenge).

[archol]

The other reason i dislike polls without giving an opinion is also the popularity of players.

For example: If ZTX)fiji would be in the same situation as Drahque or HBC the poll will definitely be in his favor (as he had/has the hugest base of friends/players/fellows in/outside his clan), if we ignore the comments.

We had such a similar situation the opposite way in the inhouse-community in Island Defense (Europe) many, many years ago, where few players cheated (openly or hidden) but the community there was in their favor and thus there wasnt any punishment which defies common sense.

Art)y might remember it as i speak of the legendary Shadow) and others with their macros/maphack/bots/other cheats - but we didnt care at that time (including me as we accepted it due their nice, funny or/and unique behavior).

[Nore]

Seeing these polls always be so heavily in favor of "No" really makes me sad.. what kind of community are we if we are just going to keep players who really wanna get back in after having made a mistake from returning? Both HBC and Drahque made mistakes, spent some time away, and should be allowed to at least get a chance at playing again here. It's just a game; let's remember that when being so quick to click on "No". We are all human, and this isn't some League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.. it's just a gaming league for a very old game. Put yourself in their shoes before you decide what the right thing to do is. I, for one, think it's a shame that people can't move on from what's happened.

[Drahque]

Question? Can you (moderators) check the votes? to make sure its only LIHL players? and not some new accounts made by 1 guy who is really against me re-joining? Just curious, or to check if it's actual LIHL members voting.

Seeing these polls always be so heavily in favor of "No" really makes me sad.. what kind of community are we if we are just going to keep players who really wanna get back in after having made a mistake from returning? Both HBC and Drahque made mistakes, spent some time away, and should be allowed to at least get a chance at playing again here. It's just a game; let's remember that when being so quick to click on "No". We are all human, and this isn't some League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.. it's just a gaming league for a very old game. Put yourself in their shoes before you decide what the right thing to do is. I, for one, think it's a shame that people can't move on from what's happened.

That's true. It's one of the most important 'skills' that has made the society what it is today; TO FORGIVE. If we never did forgive anyone, any work place would never work and no countries would trade between each other and there would be constant war.