Should 4x clog suicide strat be banned in 4v4

[supersexyy]

Who's surprised gog supports clogging

[Diablo_]

Not an easy decision, but I voted "No". I do agree the clogging tactic is not fun. But more than that I agree with what Tastay said. It is already questionable (but understandable) that it is decided for us where we must build, but if it also is decided how and what we must build I will pass for that.
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I generally agree that I don't want to ban "strategies" or make rules about what players can or can't do. But there are still 2 points which speak for doing so:
1) Clogging is simply a glitch. If you leak (much) more than the other team, then you should die faster than them, not slower.
2) We have come to the point where people are selling their towers for maximum clogging (144 out of 144 creeps leaked on level 6 for example, same for level 7), and that's plain and simple retarded and has nothing to do with LTD, let alone a "pro" league.

For now I can only suggest to play 2vs2 or 3vs3 games, as it's almost impossible to somehow forbid mass leaking/clogging, so as long as people rather destroy all the fun to just win more games, there's not much we can do.

[tastay]

Gg for all who dont roll siege or anti 17 after 10

The game doesn't go passed 7 if you execute the strategy correctly

It's either you win on 7 or die because the other team has immo

[SLSGuennter]

well. i dont think there need to be a RULE about not doing this "strat". we all are mannered enough (i hope) to not play for a clogwin if we agree to it as a community ...

[archol]

Gg for all who dont roll siege or anti 17 after 10

The game doesn't go passed 7 if you execute the strategy correctly

It's either you win on 7 or die because the other team has immo

Haha even worse now

[MarshMallows]

There does need to be a rule about it though, no one is well mannered and everyone is a fat geek.

clogging should really be a year ban, it is cheating plain and simple.

[matdas]

imo, start making a minimum value requirement for level start. For example, since it seems like 7 is the big issue, make a value requirement stating that you must have 850 value (reasonable value). For level 10, 1150 value and so on. This will be the lamest thing to add to a pro league and i understand strategic leak just fine, but things are just out of hand.

Where has the fun gone? Build your minimum value to hold each level and income. Show your build holding while incoming skills, not your leak skills.

[Hutzu]

@matdas 850 is too much imo. 500 sounds okayish (debatable), but that one needs to be for lvl 6 already. Otherwise people just build for 7, but leak 6 harder. During a normal game, yoloers don't build for lvl 7 anyway (mostly not for 6 as well, so they have the same value for 5, 6 and 7).

Sometimes people stay below 500 value, but we can allow that by saying that in compensation one has to be as much above the limit than you are below?!

Anyway, this is another option to somehow prevent this. Numbers are debatable.

[matdas]

Making a team minimum value? 4800 team value would is game recommended for lvl 7. Having the team value at 3000+ every 7 levels?. It will force only 1 or 2 people to suicide, and later game would need value adjusted to prevent the clog on lvl 17 (18,000 game recommended). adjusted to fit your needs too. Just a food for thought. @hutzu

What I would like to see is how the players hold, not how they leak.

[Hutzu]

I mean normal regular yolo, without suiciding, can be around 500 value at 7. About 800 value aquas can hold 8 vs no sends. Archers can be 2 Elite and 3 small for 6 and then 3 Elite and 2 small for 7 (715 value). 3000 is definitely too high. Engineers stand no chance to hold 6-16 and only recover for 17, and thus are usually as low as aquas during levels 1-10 as they just push.

You cant always have a holder, as even in normal lihl games only harlots and yggs can play holder for 7. And 4 x yolo, who upgrade king for 7, cannot achieve 3000 value. 2000 is enough there, as we also don't wanna castrate the yolo, but just set a minimum so they don't clog.

And most important vs this suicide-clogging are the levels 5 and 6. 7 is least important there. During 5 and 6 they clog so hard, that they have enough time to get 20 hp upgrades, 20 regen upgrades AND send about 50 wyverns (sounds unrealistic, but trust me, that is sadly true). My focus would be a restriction for lvl 6 mostly.

Maybe a simpler "If you leak more than 80 at lvl 6, you lose." would help. Engineers suck at 5, but can do decent on 6 and same goes for aquas and some other units. So we wouldn't force them to "overbuild" for 5, but still keep their regular yolo. With 80 leaks, everyone is supposed to kill 16-17 units of 36. That sounds acceptable. This shouldn't really affect a normal yolo.

[Krumme]

Good luck making the restrictions - but I agree that lvl 4-6 is the key levels for this strategy so if there were to be a minimum value requirement for those lvls this strategy would probably dissapear

[dweiler]

Clogging isn't really a glitch. Every leak of 2 units of more is potentially clogging, and level 11 clogs before you even attack the units. Besides, the point of this strategy is not the clogging, but the long time it takes the king to kill. Another suggestion instead of Matdas' value-chart could be that your king upgrades cannot differ more than say 5 from eachother, e.g. 5 hp, 0 attack, 5 regen is okay, but 6 hp, 0 attack and 6 regen is not (yes, you can make 30 attack ). It also takes some of the imbaness out of immolation. It is quite radical, so I understand if people don't agree with it

[pewpew lasergun]

why u complicate things
it is ez to recognize just report it and mod watch rep and ban.

[GoatsBeGone]

I saw Fiji posting something about "I avoid 4v4 now", Holy shit man if you took this game to a place where even Fiji is annoyed by the lameness of the strategy, you actually broke the game, litterely, I gotta be honest, I think its a shame that the league is geting so bad, I know the strategy is the best, I know its the most effective, And I have to admit that fiji showed me how this game was flawed(This is ofcause after I win 2 tournaments, and another final, 4 top 10 lihl, 1 top 3, I know, thank you very much, this is actually around the time i got worse, hmm, or maybe, the strategy made u all better cause it was more simple and no tactic and brain required what so ever), I mean, ofcause, the level strenght of lvl 17, which is indeed the whole issue of the game, atleast the biggest issue(there are plenty, king skill variation ect ect), the units that u can actually to hold with is so limited and even with hard enough sends, the values u need is beyond realistic, thats why I actually liked the whole idear of "yolo-hold", and it really was the evolution that was needed, cause level 17 had become the only level the game was about. The same went for lvl 7 altho the king was, atleast available to survive 7. My point is, I dont see how a rule against clogging could work, cause if u have bad units, 4x aqua for 7, noone expects u to do okay, and clog will happend, so I think there goes that idear, You cant ban clogging, value restriction is actually the best Idear ive heard in a long time, but i really cant see how it would be executed, so that it would function properly, and it would require alot of time of the mods, same goes for maximum variantion in kings upgrades

[Diablo_]

Personally I'm still not happy with any suggestion. Yes stuff like "you must have xx value at level xx" or the king upgrade rules might work to some degree, but those rules would be as stupid as mass leaking/clogging. Telling people how they must upgrade the king or how much they must build is just silly imo. I can only see 3 viable options atm.
1) Don't change anything and maybe hope this lame stuff won't be abused anymore (or play 2s or 3s if you don't want it to happen)
2) Allow double and cross build (not sure how the game would evolve then, it's totally possible that it would be as lame or even lamer then)
3) Make up some rules which reduce clogging quite some yet don't or barely limit the playstyle, for example you can't sell any towers with the purpose to leak more and you can't build any delays/solo towers, maybe with the exception to get DD off.