Check out this 2v2
Moderator: LIHL Staff
- iightfyre
- Corrupted Treant
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Re: Check out this 2v2
I apologize again for being rude. I also apologize for comments like "shame on you". The bottom line is that, in my judgement, you knew that he was not AFK on lvl 1 and then you tried to claim that he was in order to request a !draw. This is where I see the big fault in this replay. If either you or arishock were honest with the West team when they kindly asked you what was going on then I could see justification in punishment for a TK.
I'm sorry if we can't see eye to eye on this. I simply see that you are smart enough to know that he wasn't afk during lvl 1 but then try to convince the West team that he was. It is for this reason that I will not even look at the claim of a TK because I feel that you were already trying to get an unfair !draw from the other team.
Please feel free to wait for another moderator to look into this because I will not change my decision at this time.
I'm sorry if we can't see eye to eye on this. I simply see that you are smart enough to know that he wasn't afk during lvl 1 but then try to convince the West team that he was. It is for this reason that I will not even look at the claim of a TK because I feel that you were already trying to get an unfair !draw from the other team.
Please feel free to wait for another moderator to look into this because I will not change my decision at this time.
- DonaldtheDuckie
- Treant
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Re: Check out this 2v2
I have written several times now, that I believed him to be afk for some time after building the guard.
Personal opinions can never be lies.
You should accept that your reason for not applying the dc penalty is not there, I did not lie about him being afk as it was my opionion. In this I have previously stated that afk in this regard did not mean away from keyboard for the entire lvl but long enough to not see my suggestion in time to react to it accordingly.
So I wrote truthfully my reason for believing that he only built 80 value on lvl 1 and asked the other team to draw. This is the truth.
If a person dced, the remainding allies would ask the other team to draw.
In this case, a person teamkilled and the remainding ally asked the other team to draw. They did not.
Teamkilling is a more serious offense than disconeccting. If a person disconnects the other player can play on 1v2. Here I had to clear 2 lanes virtually by myself, getting no gold from his leaks. And he did not heal on lvl 10.
The fact that I wrote that he was afk, is how I saw it and was my opionion, read the above.
Can you honestly still say in the light of the above, that you've viewed this matter impartially and can back up that reason with anything just remotely viable?
Personal opinions can never be lies.
You should accept that your reason for not applying the dc penalty is not there, I did not lie about him being afk as it was my opionion. In this I have previously stated that afk in this regard did not mean away from keyboard for the entire lvl but long enough to not see my suggestion in time to react to it accordingly.
So I wrote truthfully my reason for believing that he only built 80 value on lvl 1 and asked the other team to draw. This is the truth.
If a person dced, the remainding allies would ask the other team to draw.
In this case, a person teamkilled and the remainding ally asked the other team to draw. They did not.
Teamkilling is a more serious offense than disconeccting. If a person disconnects the other player can play on 1v2. Here I had to clear 2 lanes virtually by myself, getting no gold from his leaks. And he did not heal on lvl 10.
The fact that I wrote that he was afk, is how I saw it and was my opionion, read the above.
Can you honestly still say in the light of the above, that you've viewed this matter impartially and can back up that reason with anything just remotely viable?
Re: Check out this 2v2
d/c penalty doesn't seem unreasonable. I mean, it's one thing to leak high value, another to only have this low on lvl 1. arishok, dc is not a temp, just same - as your loss.... you're not noob at all, and should see that not having towers lvl 1 is rather inadequate.
- iightfyre
- Corrupted Treant
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Re: Check out this 2v2
I'm sorry but you were both typing back and forth through lvl 1 so I can't buy into the idea that you thought he was afk. I've watched the lvl 1 portion 3 times and I just don't see how you figured he was afk.
Maybe another set of eyes can help us both out. We can wait to have another mod review this.
Maybe another set of eyes can help us both out. We can wait to have another mod review this.
- DonaldtheDuckie
- Treant
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Re: Check out this 2v2
Look iight, the game is about a 2v2 game ruined on lvl 1, and I ask the other team to draw and they dont.
Yes I could have communicated it more clearly, this thread is a clear example of that more clear communication is allways possible, I accepted your apology about your malplaced communication towards me and you're an admin and as such supposed to be an example to others, can you please allow me the same courtesy of granting that sometimes things can be said in a less than perfect way? Or do you expect me as a player to be better than you as an admin in this regard?
I should have written that Ari ruined the game on lvl 1 and could you please draw, but instead I wrote my personal opinion of why he gameruined, which is a bonus info. The emphasiz should be put on game ruining, teamkilling, not drawing in a situation which is more severe than a dc and not the bonus info of WHY I thought that he ruined the game for all of us at lvl 1.
I do not know how many times I have to write this, but he gameruined lvl 1 and I wrote it to the other team and they didnt want to draw. This is in my opinion bad sportsmanship and I told them so, that is not flaming. You got no reason to not reverse the elo and apply the dc penalty of - elo to ari, + to everyone else.
Yes I could have communicated it more clearly, this thread is a clear example of that more clear communication is allways possible, I accepted your apology about your malplaced communication towards me and you're an admin and as such supposed to be an example to others, can you please allow me the same courtesy of granting that sometimes things can be said in a less than perfect way? Or do you expect me as a player to be better than you as an admin in this regard?
I should have written that Ari ruined the game on lvl 1 and could you please draw, but instead I wrote my personal opinion of why he gameruined, which is a bonus info. The emphasiz should be put on game ruining, teamkilling, not drawing in a situation which is more severe than a dc and not the bonus info of WHY I thought that he ruined the game for all of us at lvl 1.
I do not know how many times I have to write this, but he gameruined lvl 1 and I wrote it to the other team and they didnt want to draw. This is in my opinion bad sportsmanship and I told them so, that is not flaming. You got no reason to not reverse the elo and apply the dc penalty of - elo to ari, + to everyone else.
Last edited by DonaldtheDuckie on Sat Jun 01, 2013 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Check out this 2v2
iightfyre wrote:I'm sorry but you were both typing back and forth through lvl 1 so I can't buy into the idea that you thought he was afk. I've watched the lvl 1 portion 3 times and I just don't see how you figured he was afk.
Maybe another set of eyes can help us both out. We can wait to have another mod review this.
I reviewed it. obviously he didn't think he was afk, but he didn't really say he was afk. "omg his neighborhood house was on fire, saved old lady and become a hero, !draw !!!"
however, missing towers lvl 1 is very early in game, and so I do kind of see the value of a draw here. I think duckie figured afk/not afk wasn't important, and that should be draw. IMO not building one is normally recoverable, and shouldn't be d/c punished. however, a !draw would indeed have been well placed.
- DonaldtheDuckie
- Treant
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Re: Check out this 2v2
Haha Eld, yeah, I tried to be funny as the game was clearly ruined lvl 1. I did not think they'd put such emphasiz on the afk part or I wouldnt have written it, especially because my use of the afk term does not conform with iights interpretation, for an in depth analysis look my previous post.
- DonaldtheDuckie
- Treant
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Re: Check out this 2v2
To Feor and Hate2lose, Thank you for using your time on looking this through, it is nice to see that the community believes that gameruining lvl 1 should be treated the same way as dc, which is the purpose of my thread. I can only hope that iight can come around see it the same way.
- iightfyre
- Corrupted Treant
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Re: Check out this 2v2
I watched the replay again just to focus on the TK allegations. Here are the 2 TK / game ruining topics and how I viewed them.
1. Game ruining level 1:
I do not see how Ari's failed build in this game could constitute an elo refund. If I refund elo for a fail build on lvl 1 then everyone will start to try to take advantage of this. The option to !draw was at the discretion of the West team and they had a right not to draw in this instance.
2. TK on lvl 10:
@donaldtheduckie
Let me take a minute to apologize again for attacking your actions. Although I firmly disagree with your attempts to persuade the other team into !drawing the game, I suppose there is no rule against exaggerating circumstances to convince a draw (Although maybe there should be).
This thread was not intended to be about whether or not Ari was afk so I will drop that topic completely.
I re-watched the replay and looked for the 2 things that I believe you wanted me to look for (Game ruining and TK). I will make judgement on the non-heal of the king shortly. Thanks for your patience
*EDITED* #2
1. Game ruining level 1:
I do not see how Ari's failed build in this game could constitute an elo refund. If I refund elo for a fail build on lvl 1 then everyone will start to try to take advantage of this. The option to !draw was at the discretion of the West team and they had a right not to draw in this instance.
2. TK on lvl 10:
arishock wrote:I didn't heal, because it would be a waste of time...
@donaldtheduckie
Let me take a minute to apologize again for attacking your actions. Although I firmly disagree with your attempts to persuade the other team into !drawing the game, I suppose there is no rule against exaggerating circumstances to convince a draw (Although maybe there should be).
This thread was not intended to be about whether or not Ari was afk so I will drop that topic completely.
I re-watched the replay and looked for the 2 things that I believe you wanted me to look for (Game ruining and TK). I will make judgement on the non-heal of the king shortly. Thanks for your patience
*EDITED* #2
Re: Check out this 2v2
Donald... you know very well, that I wasn't afk. And TK in lvl 10? Really? Did you really think you could win that game? Don't be naive... You would lose either way in late game. Your elo is low, maybe just jealous that I have better elo. That's why you want dc penalty for me. Ok let me penalty and exit this tomfoolery. If I can get punishment I hope you stop crying and lying. The truth is, that I ruined game and didn't heal, but that's only because the game was lost by level 1.
Regardless of what you whispered to me before level 10. "Time to plug pulling". So you're not just twice honest player...
Regardless of what you whispered to me before level 10. "Time to plug pulling". So you're not just twice honest player...
- DonaldtheDuckie
- Treant
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Re: Check out this 2v2
Maybe you should read this thread again iight, ari explicitly writes that he did not heal as he did not see the point of the game going on. But you shouldnt need that by just looking at hte entire game ruined lvl 1 then not building to recover lvl 2 = full leak from 2 and onward = game fucked for our team.
Just to emphasize that I believe that arishok is usually a very good legion player and that this is prob his 1/1000 games of legion that is his worst, but it is a fact that his action ruined the game lvl 1 and you should as such deal with the game ruining when it impacts the elo system. This thread was never meant to discredit ari but show that when a game is ruined for whatever mistake lvl 1, by not building and then not healing, there should be consequences as it distorts the ely system and is in violation with the lihl rules of fairplay. How fair is it to play 1v2 from lvl 1 iight?
I really feel that a complaint is in order vs how you handle the lihl as an admin by
1. not showing proper respect and
2. wrongfully jumping to conclusions and
3. distorting what other people say by taking things out of context and
4. demand that other people communicate more clearly than yourself.
But I really like that you faced up to it and apologized, we all make mistakes, as this game clearly shows and for what its worth I think that you're usually a great admin and I've never been in any doubt about your good intentions for creating a good atmosphere for high skilled legion gaming in the lihl.
We can all improve.
I just wish you would judge things I bring up fairly as you'd judge things that happened to yourself. (insert a sad smiley)
Just to emphasize that I believe that arishok is usually a very good legion player and that this is prob his 1/1000 games of legion that is his worst, but it is a fact that his action ruined the game lvl 1 and you should as such deal with the game ruining when it impacts the elo system. This thread was never meant to discredit ari but show that when a game is ruined for whatever mistake lvl 1, by not building and then not healing, there should be consequences as it distorts the ely system and is in violation with the lihl rules of fairplay. How fair is it to play 1v2 from lvl 1 iight?
I really feel that a complaint is in order vs how you handle the lihl as an admin by
1. not showing proper respect and
2. wrongfully jumping to conclusions and
3. distorting what other people say by taking things out of context and
4. demand that other people communicate more clearly than yourself.
But I really like that you faced up to it and apologized, we all make mistakes, as this game clearly shows and for what its worth I think that you're usually a great admin and I've never been in any doubt about your good intentions for creating a good atmosphere for high skilled legion gaming in the lihl.
We can all improve.
I just wish you would judge things I bring up fairly as you'd judge things that happened to yourself. (insert a sad smiley)
- DonaldtheDuckie
- Treant
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Re: Check out this 2v2
Arishok wrote:Donald... you know very well, that I wasn't afk. And TK in lvl 10? Really? Did you really think you could win that game? Don't be naive... You would lose either way in late game. Your elo is low, maybe just jealous that I have better elo. That's why you want dc penalty for me. Ok let me penalty and exit this tomfoolery. If I can get punishment I hope you stop crying and lying. The truth is, that I ruined game and didn't heal, but that's only because the game was lost by level 1.
Regardless of what you whispered to me before level 10. "Time to plug pulling". So you're not just twice honest player...
You wrote just before I posted, so you didnt see that I wrote that this thread was not meant to be vs you but rather to adress the issue of lihl games being ruined lvl 1. There was nothing you could do after the game was fucked lvl 2 or 3.
Regarding the whisper of time to plug pull, I was making a joke and showed it by doing a smiley to show that I was obviously being ironic.. I'm sorry that you did not find it funny.
- iightfyre
- Corrupted Treant
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Re: Check out this 2v2
@donaldtheduckie
Please read my edited post ---^
I did in fact reread the whole topic and reviewed #2 again in my response.
Please read my edited post ---^
I did in fact reread the whole topic and reviewed #2 again in my response.
Re: Check out this 2v2
lol, ari I also thought should pp this one maybe. I mean, this is one of those blue moon scenarios where pp might be justified lol. I was also thinking about why not pp when watching game, not because losing but because stupid lvl 1.
- BeepBoopBeep
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Re: Check out this 2v2
eldryan wrote:lol, ari I also thought should pp this one maybe. I mean, this is one of those blue moon scenarios where pp might be justified lol. I was also thinking about why not pp when watching game, not because losing but because stupid lvl 1.
Well done eldryan encouraging players to Plug pull. PP is never justified and against the rules any player found deliberately plug pulling will be immediately unvouched.
Arishok wrote:The truth is, that I ruined game and didn't heal
This is exactly what psyclone did, he didn't heal because he didn't like his team arguing so i don't see why this would be different. In the end Arishok by choice picked not to heal which is team killing.
Arishok will be given a 3day LIHL ban. For team killing.
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