fixing the dc penalty

[Krumme]

You think it's fitting for people with worse/more unreliable internet to be banned for several days and in the end be banned for the rest of the season? I really don't think banning people for doing something they rarely can control is fair. I'm not saying ELO penalty is the perfect solution but yes it is IMO better than the current solution.

[nabo.]

You think it's fitting for people with worse/more unreliable internet to be banned for several days and in the end be banned for the rest of the season? I really don't think banning people for doing something they rarely can control is fair. I'm not saying ELO penalty is the perfect solution but yes it is IMO better than the current solution.

Assuming you did not game ruin before, you need 4 disconnections to get an actual ban of 3 days. Before that, you will receive a warning when you do accumulate two points.

Is this not lenient enough for people who disconnect? I did propose to staff before giving penalty points only to those who dc twice in like 5 days or something. How does that sound?

If you regularly disconnect, you should not be playing. I thought we went over this point on previous discussions.

[Krumme]

I kinda agree nabo. but the 5 days thing is odd as you are more likely to dc the more games you play = more games = more dc's = more likely to not finish the season unbanned.

"Assuming you did not game ruin before" - how is this relevant? Everyone in the league should have equal rules/punishments and we all KNOW that not everyone has same internet connection. It's controlled by the country, enviroment and family you grew up in and is rarely something you can control yourself. Imagine you have a somewhat bad internet connection and you are say 14-18 y/old and live with your parents. Would you pay the $ that you obviously don't have to get a better internet? I don't think so - so you end up dc'ing once in x games and the more games you play the more games you dc and the bigger risk you have of being banned for the remainder of the season. It honestly shouldn't be a bad thing to play more games - imo that's the worst thing we can try and do to the league.
Please concider.

[godlik3]

i do think sometimes we are not abble to prevent dc's
its not something that we can really control
so i dont think ppl should get banend for dc with proxy
but if no proxy = 1 day unvouc for sure...next time 1+2, next time 3 + 4...etc ( with no proxy ofc )
if dc with proxy, -1 point and -20 elo!

[aRt)Y]

@Krumme You are more than welcome to finally present a new idea other than going back to the old one. We presented you two suggestions of which one is currently implemented.

To achieve something, you gotta make a compromise - and currently, I don't see the players meeting the staff hallways.

And "90%" is just a random number once again. 100% of the staff doesn't want ELO manipulation, now what? The community has often enough shown that they change their mind from one day to the other; and only because it worked, it doesn't mean it can't be improved.

i do think sometimes we are not abble to prevent dc's
its not something that we can really control
so i dont think ppl should get banend for dc with proxy
but if no proxy = 1 day unvouc for sure...next time 1+2, next time 3 + 4...etc ( with no proxy ofc )
if dc with proxy, -1 point and -20 elo!

You dont want players to get banned with gproxy, yet you suggest giving them one point. The points, at some point, will lead to a ban though. Contradiction?

You dislike banning/unvouching, yet suggest a full day for disconnecting without gproxy? How does it make a difference to casual disconnecting with gproxy due to technical reasons?

However, if the majority of you agrees with godlike's suggestion, we can remove the DC rules from the points system, ignore disconnects with gproxy and simply unvouch anyone for one day (or scaled based on the total disconnects so far) who disconnects without gproxy without adding him to the system.

[eldryan]

would not like that suggestion at all. really, dcs are mainly annoying because of the ELO miss for the winning team. 1 day ban wouldn't fix it.

if we could rehost and finish the game, it would eliminate a lot of the problems. the technical reasons are

a. not unsurmountable
b. completely irrelevant if using broud3r's map

@art)y

[eldryan]

well, there is 0 doubt the current dc penalty rules suck. no play on and finish game without dc penalty NO MATTER WHAT TIME DC is just ridiculous. the place for fine-tuning is far from now. I vote for return to old rules.

[aRt)Y]

Why should you play an uneven game on though? How is that less "annoying" for the losing team than no one getting ELO for a win/loss which does not exist?

I will repeat it again anway: We suggested enough ideas to make a compromise. It is now your turn. If you want ELO for disconnects so badly, fine. But then it will be done via PES with no direct manipulation while the season is going - your choice.

[Krumme]

PES it is.

[HealByColor]

I think the league should require some sort of proxy server. Then establish a rule across the board. The point system will be unfair for a few people I agree. I am assuming that these disconnects points are only given if people report?

[eldryan]

maybe only dc penalty if the dcers team was obviously losing, regardless of reported or not. unless all players agreed on "no report" or something.

[aRt)Y]

You seriously dont want to understand that ENT enforces its rules regardless of you winning or losing, do you? How is that so hard to understand? And this "if all agree" will just stir up drama again. One guy will be against it and gets flamed. So he keeps his mouth shut and can't do what he really wants. Ergo, APRS.

@HealByColor Moderators may enforce any punishments for rule violations recorded on any replay.

[eldryan]

You seriously dont want to understand that ENT enforces its rules regardless of you winning or losing, do you? How is that so hard to understand? And this "if all agree" will just stir up drama again. One guy will be against it and gets flamed. So he keeps his mouth shut and can't do what he really wants. Ergo, APRS.

@HealByColor Moderators may enforce any punishments for rule violations recorded on any replay.

not remotely true. agreeing to that is very rare, and flaming wouldn't occur in this sort of circumstance ever, really. this happens literally 10 times a day already in terms of !sign , and no1 gets flamed over it. in terms of what he can do? he can just not sign or agree before signing. this isn't the same scenarior.

in terms of winning or losing - you don't ban someone for TK if they are dominating. similarly, you don't ban someone for a dc if they're crushing the enemy. not that hard to understand.

also, in terms of the dc penalty - there is no rule not to dc. and if there is, it's a dumb rule as it's not something players can follow or not. that's like having a law to be over 200 lbs if you're 18 years old while being under 15% body fat.

@healbycolor @Hutzu I just want to clarify something - If I don't like a player, I can go through all his replays, find 10x he dced and he will be banned for a season. Is that correct? Doesn't matter if I'm in game, what lvl, how long ago, etc.?

[aRt)Y]

Theoretically, correct. Any rule violation which is not flaming can be reported if you weren't ingame. The reason being that you are supposed to behave regardless of a mod being in the game or not. Such behavior, however, is really contradicting with the league's "codex" and your own suggestions.

Regarding a rule about disconnecting, there's a general rule not to leave which covers this. While you may not be capable of avoiding disconnecting 100%, ENT has approved several ingame votekicks so far against players who have repeatedly lagged ingame. That's because at a certain point, it simply becomes game ruining. I wouldnt be surprised if LIHL players will do the same in the future with you after having complained so often.

Edit: So if players want PES, shall there be two ELO stats at the end of the season or just one (the season ELO - the penalty = your rank ELO)?

[eldryan]

Such behavior, however, is really contradicting with the league's "codex" and your own suggestions.

Regarding a rule about disconnecting, there's a general rule not to leave which covers this.

I wouldnt be surprised if LIHL players will do the same in the future with you after having complained so often.

part a. Actually, I wouldn't make such a stupid rule that I wouldn't want it applied in these scenarios. If you actually read my post that you responded to: maybe only dc penalty if the dcers team was obviously losing, regardless of reported or not.

b. Not leaving isn't the same as not disconnecting.

c. LIHL players will do this to anyone they dislike, as the complaints you see compared to the complaints actually happening are less then the tip of an iceberg. If you say there's a single LIHL player without at least 1 person on not-great terms... you're way too optimistic.

In regards to PES, yea that would be good. I don't see the need to separate them if you only dc pen losing dcs, but if you dc pen every1 that dcs yea it's better to have two separate ladders.