Bottom-5 Unvouch Poll

[Krayyzie]

Okay, since we´ve had this discussion for very long now, abuse or not abuse by certain moderators, I´ll just create a poll to see how popular this decision is at the moment. If it isnt to much to ask, Lets keep people voting here to the players who are active in lihl league.

If you feel like you can stand by your vote, feel free to write a post whetever you voted yes/no, that way we can even check out if the main part of the votes for each poll option is voted by lihl moderators or players, and to give a more clear vision.
However if you want to vote without writing, feel free to do that also.

More info to the reason why I start the poll can be found in different lihl threads about this.

[Krayyzie]

I´ll be first out myself
No, Unvouching is the wrong way to go (worst players doesnt always get the lowest elo)

[dweiler]

I think there definitely needs to be an automated unvouch process.

That said I think there is too much of a mess at this moment to continue with the unvouching.

The best way is in my opinion to think of a good way to automatically unvouch weak players. I personally like Drahque's suggestion of taking ELO, activity and win rate into account.

Until that is sorted out the players should stay in the league.

So option 2

[bit]

1 yes vs 2 no's, not fair, voting for yes then - -

[dweiler]

Price for best argument goes to... bit

[Krayyzie]

so goes the serious part of this poll... good to get a nice fair vote with those thoughts...

[Furbolg.]

Well bot 5 can just re apply again I guess?

[dweiler]

In the current format, they can re-apply next season again, not this season.

[Krayyzie]

well..it looks like we will have a clear winner..7/2 in votes for no so far, and this includes bit voting yes because it was 2v1...

[dweiler]

I have changed my vote to option 3 since I read the poll wrong. I don't think ELO should be the only determinant of unvouching so unvouching the bottom 5 is not the best solution.

[iightfyre]

I voted for #3 - ELO is not a good enough measurement of skill to unvouch players.

This is for a few reasons:

1. We have seen "skilled" players sit in the bottom 5 throughout the season (not to name any names, you all know who they are/were) - then they suddenly get up to 1100 ELO and back again. This fluxuation in a "skilled" league is to be expected. I don't believe that the bottom 5 today will be the same as the bottom 5 in two weeks. Hence, I do not think that we should set a date when those players who happen to be in the current bottom 5 should be unvouched.

2. There will ALWAYS be a bottom 5. If we unvouch inactive players and the bottom 5 I fear that the community will continually shrink until non existence.

3. What ever happened to fun? This league was created to have fun and fair games. The competition and "risk" of being unvouched puts too much emphasis on winning and ruins the integrity of the league.

4. The only reason the mods even developed an "unvouch" list was to quickly unvouch players who should never have been vouched in the first place. What we have noticed is that most of these players improve over time and we change our minds to unvouch them. I think, for the most part, the league has turned out pretty well.

5. Should a 1500 elo player have the weakest teammates? YES. So keep the bottom 5, they add a dimension of play that keep the auto balance system in tact.

Lastly, I do believe that we should unvouch certain players. The question of "why" and "how" and "when" and "for what reason" and "under whose judgement" and so on leaves me puzzled. I really don't have a good answer for the "Who, why and when" someone should get unvouched. We, as mods, are still discussing this.

Hope this helps

[Drahque]

I think there definitely needs to be an automated unvouch process.

Indeed we do, the question is how to work it out? I mean, how do we go from an idea to making it actaully happen?

[dweiler]

Indeed we do, the question is how to work it out? I mean, how do we go from an idea to making it actaully happen?

We are discussing a new method to unvouch at the moment among the mods. We will inform you about this in the next couple of days

[dark_magician]

Option 3.

[eldryan]

Yea, I would like to see a few people unvouched. I do believe this league should be more elite, and that everyone in it should be competing at least. There are people in the bot 5 who aren't those though.