ENT Gaming

Well in that case I want to report this game: https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=5221027

Big clog on level 7 which caused them to use only 2 heals instead of 3/4 (king was 2000 hp at the end of level 7)
Another big clog on level 8, which caused them to use no heal (again king on 2000 hp)
2 heals used on level 10 and survived with 1300 value, because of the clogging before they had those heals and didn't die
They won game later because of huge incomes because of clog-abuse

I will discuss this game with fellow mods. I split your post into a new topic and changed the title to "Clog-report" @mickeythemousie

i didnt watch replay but sounds like 7/4 king 10
thats the pb it wont qualify as clog, its just no skill leak and push.

i wish perm hpmmcb. or maybe 2 weeks instead of 1.

This is a teambased game.
The purpose of each player is not to hold all lvls, but to judge how to best help your team.

If you got no holding units for 5/7/8 /10 it is the smart choice to push, so that you help your team by getting stronger later lvls, as well as sending.
=> if no one got goes holder you will clog.

If you want all people to hold all lvls the units u roll become a bigger factor => just more luck involved.

From my personal expierience not many players know how to yolo correctly.
All those crying about 7/4+++ and leaking is no skill should learn how to yolo correctly, instead of senseless overbuilding for no reason.

Thats my opinion

Our units were archer/pandas with phantoms/bear (which i rred from lvl 1) with panda and mudman/wolves with pandas which one of us you wished to stay low and hold 7?Before 10 i held all lvls besides 7-8.Ignore all that u only sent 8 units on 7 would 4 heals satisfy u?

Didnt see the replay but it reminds me of a similar game i had before rofl, just push all the time instead of going for hold - clog is not allowed but leaking (huge) on purpose at 5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13 and maxing king on those levels is still allowed

If I'm not mistaken, at lvl 7 it looked like this:

Yellow: 7/5......2 Elite 3 Small archers (560 value) (could be 155 more, usually archers go 3 elite, 2 small)
Orange: 7/4.....3 pandaren and 2 phantoms (795 value)
Green: 7/5.......1 greymane, 1 pandaren, 1 mudman (745 value)
Pink: 7/1.........3 wolverines, 1 pandaren 3~4 grunts (990-1010 value)

Those are still normal yolo values (except yellow, but just slightly). Personally, I see no direct/intentional abuse. Though mickey is correct that without the 'spared' heal, team East would have lost on 10. But you could also say that, yellow could/would/should have gone for hold instead in that scenario and East would have lived. So it's all hypothetical.
In the end, the game was lost by sending on lvl 16.

Just push +7/3 pre7 - (max) king (if not immo) - leak 5,6,7,8 and 9 - send huge 10 with mass wyvern and 4 furbs (they always lose heals), dont send arena and 1-2 of you leak 11,12,13 (a bit or a lot) and resend 14 and gg in 100% of the games when we used or i saw that tactic

Dont clog, just leak a bit except on 7 and 8 - cause just clogging is not allowed (but you can stop building or split easily), but still leaking huge

Hutzu wrote:But you could also say that, yellow could/would/should have gone for hold instead in that scenario and East would have lived. So it's all hypothetical.

But he didn't because they abused clogging. You also don't say: We don't ban the pausehacking, because if they didn't do that they could've done such and such and they would've won anyway. They played a strategy that could only be played because of clogging (and don't say it's unintentional, everyone knows that if you are going to leak 80 units you will clog), and since clogging isn't allowed this should not be allowed?

Furthermore, obviously we wouldn't have sent level 16 if yellow built mass archers for 10 to hold, which he would have done if they didn't clog, so the game would have been way different and it's useless to think of that. The fact is without clogging they would have died and could not have played the strategy as they did, and since clogging isn't allowed it was an illegal strategy.

Also note that in this case the consequences are even really strong, because it was the difference between dying and living. In the the case of level 17 clogging it is only gaining some extra time, and in the case of suiciding it can also only be a matter of time and a non-decisive heal -> those consequences are far less decisive.


(PS, I'm just trying to get a sense of what the rule means, see this more as a testcase than me trying to get people banned please)

Man mickie read my posts haha, clogging aint allowed but leaking huge is still allowed, and its not clog when 1 player holds a lane!

I dont understand that rule either because i will tell my team to use it all the time too now in future (except we got immo), but wolf was observer in that game - where the other team just pushed and leaked,leaked,leaked ... and sent hard on certain levels

hao wrote:Man mickie read my posts haha, clogging aint allowed but leaking huge is still allowed - i dont understand that rule either because i will tell my team to use it all the time too now in future (except we got immo), but wolf was observer in that game - where the other team just pushed and leaked,leaked,leaked ... and sent hard on certain levels

Yeah, it confuses me, that's why I keep asking to get clarity, because the rule doesn't make sense to me at all at the moment.

Well, I watched the replay.

The new rule,which I wasn't on discussion when announced because I was recently joined, seemed like me to make fair game.
Especially main purpose seemed like to prohibit the lame style leak lvl 5 about more than 100, not using king skills such as stomp and wave.
Selling all towers at lvl 6 to clog intentionally and try to mass wyvs to finish off 7.

Also, Imagine both team have good towers and enough heals to endure until pre 17, so both team decide to go straight 17.
After round 16, one team with low value, bad units and behind at heals should like to lose if it was fair game. But they decide to sell more than 1000+ value and intentionally make clog at lvl 17, finish up winning since other king die first although opponent had heal lead, this one could be called unfair game.(To be honest, this story was what happen in the game which I played, Although I was okay about losing it, some of my teammates was way too pissed off about that.)

Every game could be regarded as unfair if players in the game feel like that.
But, as seen as just neutral position, team East didn't sell any towers nor 4 of them intentionally didn't build for purpose of clog.
Their values seemed somewhat reasonable to me and the fact that round 7 and 8 is somewhat hard without any send, team west(mick team) did send a lot in both lvl, which could made them pretty hard to defend it.

Since, the clog problem cannot be solved by making acts because this map mechanism should be changed if you want to prohibit clog.
Unless changing map especially about the part of creep spawn, We(Mods) cannot making rules like you must build enough to make the creep+send should not be clogged in middle because it can be interpreted yolo is banned.
and the fact that if you guys decide to skip 8 and went harder 10 to mass wyvs, I'm pretty sure east shouldn't be alive.

If it goes after lvl 7, the clog team always have weaknesses and if you punch that weakness by smart play, I don't think you will barely lose it.
Personally I don't like to send 8 against clogged team since we know the fact that they will gonna clog. If we cannot change the clog which was made by game mechanism, we have endure the fact that it might be clog and skip it since we cannot change it basically.

I personally do not like clog but cannot prohibit it totally is my opinion.

Also, the fact that suicide thing is still okay when you don't sell your towers.
You can fail with shitty towers and if you build rather than pushing there is no chance to win against better roll. That could be interpreted as lucky roll always win the game.
And the fact that which everyone knows about is if someone suicide, All players know that 1 lane send goes to full king and shows other lanes tower every round, which means you can decided which round to send.
Futhermore, suicided team cannot go 16 or 17 because most of games they fear 14 or 15 unless opponent send lvl 12.
I don't think suicide make the team more huge advantage ahead the opponent team.

I don't understand. How can a strategy with which you leak 80/100 units on both level 7 and 8 not be an intentional clogging strategy?

unfortunately leaking pushing > build skill

one day u guys gona kill the game

fairly new players like this style

thats why they hate hpmmcb which is skill build
all senior players will quit

guateguard egg, what ?! mash that damn wisp button !!!

If you look up the building rule update, it's mainly focused until lvl 7.
at lvl 7, the recommended value of map is 1200 but if you have shitty towers, you cannot even hold with 1200+ value against 7 since it is one of hardest rounds in the game.
and You guys did send hard, which mean they might have big chance of leak.
If you want to prohbit leak 80/100 in both lvl 7,8 this means the team should go build 4x ygg each lane or heavily overvalued like public Mega game.
I don't understand why you say leaking many at lvl 7 or 8 is regarded as intentional clogging.( The fact that clogging is right but I'm saying it is not intended cloging. )

For example, about 1300 value harlots leak 7 easy but leak 8 without send.
1300 value of gateguards don't hold lvl 7, and not even close at lvl 8.
There are characteristics of towers which make LTD very fun, and I think we should accept the fact.
Regardless of recommended value, there are some players with decent knowledge of towers and we're trying to see their knowledges in high skilled league like LIHL.
But we cannot enforce them to build to go all hold when they got knowledge that they cannot manage lvl 7 nor 8 with their shitty towers, the only chance to win with their towers might be pushing lumberjack to send harder to opponent so killing opponent's king, since the game objective is kill other side's king.

As I said, I do not like the clog but I think we can't change nothing when it is due to game mechanism.

So, as you reported this case, what do you think opponent team should have done?
I don't understand why you dislike their hard leak at lvl 7 and 8 since it is very hard round ^^

and pewpew, I do respect senior gamers but this clog problem couldn't be solve unless we go x1 or changing map mechanism.
Furthermore, I would like to hear about seniors' opinion since if they played for long time and heard yolo was invented about season 3, How they haven't problem of clog things? since map 3.41 version doesn't look like changed recently.

We are always thinking our best to prohibit players to lose interest in LIHL with this retard clog problem, however cannot deny that our best solution was new building rule.
Give me your thought which might help to solve problem of clog, before saying this is bad.