unvouch shrimp for noobplaying-teamkill-non lihl player

[Achillesgr6]

he said he wanna try something new..he can go at pub or with bots to try it..not in a lihl game

i am gonna take this threat serius...all people have a bad games but this was on purpose he trying random stuff just to troll..what if i build a sea giant and i mass elite archers behind and i stay 1/0 until lvl5 what you all guys gonna say?
or to build a ygg re roll to spawn and then mass spawns until lvl 10....i will say " iam trying somehting diffrent"



lihl90l

https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=6591473

[matdas]

you don't have to play the same exact way every single time...

[tastay]

You can always change the way you play but it should be logical

Staying 7/2 with mortars until after 10 finishes while leaking 9 with 1200+ value is not one of those scenarios ey

[Miyagi]

you don't have to play the same exact way every single time...

Of course you don't, but when it becomes illogical and selfish, then for sure it will be questionable.

In LTD/LIHL, you are part of a team, shrimp can clearly see his team has a holder for magic levels such as lvl 5, and 8. He has the perfect unit to become a high income player, something his team lacks.. yet he goes ahead and tries "something new" trying to hold level 5 with mortar and tribe mixed, anybody who has accumulated brain-cells in LTD should know that this is going to fail and cause you to be behind. The only logical way to hold level 5 with mortar, (if it's really needed) is with a magnatur or windrider, however it is always beneficial to push rather than trying to hold level 5 with mortar (this should be basic knowledge for lihl standards).

Shrimp ended up leaking level 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 with 7/2 mortar, being 1200 value at level 9.
Was this a selfish way to play? Yes.
Will he do it again? Who knows, this is shrimp.
Is 1 replay enough to unvouch in this case? Sadly, not.

Let's just hope shrimp doesn't try "something new" when it is not practical for the team.

[Artichoke]

I hate to come in here and make a post like this but I feel it's necessary. Keep in mind I do joke around a lot in-game and on the forums but this post is 100% serious and I think it's an issue a lot of people want addressed. When shrimp is in a game, the following things around bound to happen:

• He will build sub-optimally at one point or another.
• He will refuse advice thinking he knows better when clearly his results speak for themselves.
• He will report anyone if they DC even if it's on level 1.
• He will report for the most minor rule breaks, even if they are benign and have no effect on the game.
• He will whine and complain if the game doesn't go well and claim his team "TK'd" him, even though his lack of game knowledge causes him to make poor calls or analyse situations incorrectly.
• The overall quality of the game will decrease, regardless of on whose team he is on.

Personally, I don't think this is the kind of person most people want in the league. He certainly isn't here because of his exceptional skill-level and decision making, nor is he someone that's liked by the community or fun to play with. Keep in mind he was initially vouched by Nore who he is known to be friends with. I have screenshots of reliable sources talking about how shrimp vouch was Nore's decision and now that Nore isn't a mod the rest of LIHL is left to deal with the mess. Will PM these upon request.

I understand not everyone is Beep and everyone makes mistakes. For me, the biggest problem is someone who consistently makes mistakes and has a very poor attitude. In all my games with or against him, I have never seen shrimp actively try to improve or have fun. He constantly reports everyone for any DC penalty just for that +3 ELO, even if it's a harmless DC very early into the game before any team had an advantage. He claims openly that he needs ELO and it seems all he cares about is getting a high rank by any means necessary. If you look at his recent posts here: https://entgaming.net/forum/search.php?author_id=48492&sr=posts you will see he files more reports per season that most people have in their entire lives across all bots. I understand rule breaks should be reported but just flagrantly reporting every DC pen to try to earn ELO in a really shady way rather than just becoming good at the game and winning is rather despicable in my opinion.

I understand I need to provide replays to back up what I'm saying. Going through a bunch of games and analysing someone else's misplays is not too high up on my to-do list so I politely ask that you keep this thread open to give me some time to do so. To start, here's a replay where I believe shrimp misplays a very basic and standard YOLO unit quite heavily:

6446955.w3g

(2.12 MiB) Downloaded 50 times

• Level 1 stays 1/0 and adds a geomancer instead of a wisp. Against warriors I'm not even certain this holds, and on top of that being 1/0 is far worse than 2/0. Essentially, since each wisp provides geometric growth to the amount of lumber you harvest, the second one is the most valuable as it doubles your lumber rate, whereas the third one only increases it by 50% and so on. Most YOLO units really rely on the fast 2/0 so they can send more on early levels. I feel if you aren't planning to go holder for 5, 7, or 10 with you units intentionally staying 1/0 when 2/0 is possible is a mistake.

• Level 2 he still leaks despite overbuilding. 3 phantoms does just fine vs a furb send, and can even hold depending on luck. In fact, the geomancer positioned in such a way makes the focus worse and causes the phantoms to take unequal amounts of damage and not realize their full DPS potential. He still leaked the furb which gives the opponent a scout AND he stayed 1/0 for way longer than necessary for no real benefit.

• Level 3 somehow doesn't build now despite overbuilding entire game. Leaks 11 units, gives even more of a scout, and really hurts his YOLO as he can't realistically push fully for 4 as he needs 4 phantoms to hold it, plus he lost over 30 gold by leaking a level with no send.

• Level 4 has to build another phantom and is only 4/0. Again, 4/1 is a pretty big improvement over 4/0 and a normal phantom YOLO could easily be 4/1 or even 5/1 by this point. He almost has as little lumber as the Alch player who has to stay low to upgrade Gob for 4.

• Level 5 his lack of early push means he is low on lumber and can't upgrade king as effectively when facing a send. He essentially has as much lumber as yellow who is building to hold 5/7.

• Level 8 upgrades Clockwreck even though that unit is essentially dead value. Has to stay 7/3 until 9 because he built suboptimally and leaked so much.

• Level 9 forced to build more value than necessary to clear as Clockwreck is dead value. He has 3 unupped phantoms and 2 upped whereas just 4 upped or even 3 upped + 1 unupped + t1 can clear nicely.

• Level 10 pushes from 7/4->7/6 before the level making his send weaker. Naturally still leaks all 3 bosses which is fine, but he's much lower on lumber and inc than a standard YOLO should be in such a drawn out game. He essentially has the same incomes as the holders + he has very low value and is bound to leak 12.

Didn't watch after 11 as he pushed 7/7 and built another geomancer and I guess he was planning on going leaker for team. However, even if he wasn't wanting to leak I feel he may not have had a choice, especially if they lost arena.

I understand everyone has bad games but I feel shrimp plays poorly and has a bad attitude in a lot of his games. I'll post again later once I get around to analysing another replay.

[Diablo_]

I think you guys generally overreact. If you wouldn't focus that much on shrimp and would give him some freedom of choice as in not call every move of him out and don't try to dictate his build step by step you probably wouldn't notice any difference between him and 30% of the other LIHL players. I didn't have any problem with him in the past weeks, maybe because I treat him with respect. Of course he isn't one of the better players, but again, there are many players of equal skill in LIHL (and imo he is good enough to be in LIHL).
Too many of you guys also think there's only one way to play and if he doesn't do that, you get annoyed. Like I don't agree with 50% of artichoke's post either, most of these actions are fine.

[Miyagi]

I think you guys generally overreact. If you wouldn't focus that much on shrimp and would give him some freedom of choice as in not call every move of him out and don't try to dictate his build step by step you probably wouldn't notice any difference between him and 30% of the other LIHL players. I didn't have any problem with him in the past weeks, maybe because I treat him with respect. Of course he isn't one of the better players, but again, there are many players of equal skill in LIHL (and imo he is good enough to be in LIHL).
Too many of you guys also think there's only one way to play and if he doesn't do that, you get annoyed. Like I don't agree with 50% of artichoke's post either, most of these actions are fine.

Nobody dictates to shrimp on his build step by step, and it's not like he would listen anyway. So, I'm not quite sure where you are pulling that statement from.

In this case, Achilles asked shrimp to go "income" and to not try and hold 5, because it's not practical. This is a sensible request, and coming from a veteran of LIHL, I would of respected that decision and listened.

To a certain extent, there is only one way to play certain units, but it all comes down to the game at hand.. This is why most people play units one way, because any other way isn't practical for the meta of LTD.

[Artichoke]

I think you guys generally overreact. If you wouldn't focus that much on shrimp and would give him some freedom of choice as in not call every move of him out and don't try to dictate his build step by step you probably wouldn't notice any difference between him and 30% of the other LIHL players. I didn't have any problem with him in the past weeks, maybe because I treat him with respect. Of course he isn't one of the better players, but again, there are many players of equal skill in LIHL (and imo he is good enough to be in LIHL).
Too many of you guys also think there's only one way to play and if he doesn't do that, you get annoyed. Like I don't agree with 50% of artichoke's post either, most of these actions are fine.

Yes I agree people overreact in LIHL. I don't think this is not one of those situations though. I never claimed that doing different builds from the standard is necessarily bad. In fact, I was very impressed when I first joined LIHL to see some people stay low with archer + ToT and hold 7 really well. However, for the most part, standard builds are standard for a reason: they are the most efficient and effective way to play. Standards exist everywhere and should be followed unless you really know what you're doing and can innovate in a productive way. Would you rather a graphics artist you hired use MSPaint over Photoshop just to be different? If you needed surgery, would you rather your surgeon used an outdated, risky procedure instead of the latest and safest technology?

Innovation is great and is one of the reasons LTD is such an amazing game. However, going mortar + tribes to hold 5 and staying 7/2 forever is not innovation, it's simply playing suboptimally. To emphasize, I wouldn't have a problem if this were a rare occurrence or if this player was enjoyable to play with and had a good attitude. It's a combination of all his negative qualities and the fact that he consistently makes poor plays and calls while refusing to take advice that lead me to conclude he is not fit for LIHL.

Furthermore, if you disagree with my analysis please feel free to share your views. I don't claim to be the best player and if I'm wrong somewhere I'd love to know as it would help me improve. In general though I don't think you can ever justify staying 1/0 until level 3 with phantoms, then not building for 3 despite overbuilding for every other level and leaking 11 units while giving the enemy a free scout + more time to accrue lumber for a 5 send.

[supersexyy]

Shrimp has a very large amount of games and is still hovering above average ELO. Based on these statistics alone we will no be able to unvouch due to a lack of skill.

[bugatti_veyron]

That was some ENT18 right there well done shrimp living up to your name.

[Artichoke]

Shrimp has a very large amount of games and is still hovering above average ELO. Based on these statistics alone we will no be able to unvouch due to a lack of skill.

Last season he was bot. This season he's reported about 50 people so +150 ELO above where he would be on average. Plus I think ELO isn't necessarily the best indicator as some people are top one season and bot another. Better to look at replays and dissect the specifics than use a really broad measure that isn't an accurate representation of skill.

[SLSGuennter]

I agree with @Diablo_ ... If you talk to Shrimp, and treat him friendly and with respect his plays aint worse then plays of a lot other players here. If you flame him like hell, and make the game uncomfortable then obviously he wont play as good as he could.

This season he's reported about 50 people so +150 ELO above where he would be on average. Plus I think ELO isn't necessarily the best indicator as some people are top one season and bot another. Better to look at replays and dissect the specifics than use a really broad measure that isn't an accurate representation of skill.

Well, he is -6 wins/lose and got 1006 Elo, so its like +96 Elo from reports, not 150, but you are right ... 910 Elo players COULD be unvouched for low skill if they play bad imo, but Shrimp is good enough to justifiy him being in LIHL.

[cam_breezy]

in my defense, this build is not new. ive already tested this build and it does normally hold 5 6 and well on 8 but, with the unlucky bo on 3 that shorted me and the peer pressure from team mates to push got the better of the build. 2 alpha males mix with mortars will hold 5, ive done it before. allowing it to push 7/5 but fact is i failed and just goof'd the build. i dont see why the big drama. ive generally been carrying my team every game i play of late, none of u can deny that. i intended to impress you guys with a recent build i learned with mortar and tribes and i failed miserably. my bad. i think the black sheep over reaction im getting for this is a little retarded tho cuz i still dont talk shit to any of you and i watch simple fails happen all day every day. but gg im unvouched right now for a pull i admitted to but somebody gotta hate.

[supersexyy]

I don't think criticising a player's bad games is any more valid. I'd value a broad measure such as stats over pin pointing bad games provided there is a sufficient sample size.

I'm sure for every player with 300+ games you could identify 5-10 games of hard fails.

[Artichoke]

in my defense, this build is not new. ive already tested this build and it does normally hold 5 6 and well on 8 but, with the unlucky bo on 3 that shorted me and the peer pressure from team mates to push got the better of the build. 2 alpha males mix with mortars will hold 5, ive done it before. allowing it to push 7/5 but fact is i failed and just goof'd the build. i dont see why the big drama. ive generally been carrying my team every game i play of late, none of u can deny that. i intended to impress you guys with a recent build i learned with mortar and tribes and i failed miserably. my bad. i think the black sheep over reaction im getting for this is a little retarded tho cuz i still dont talk shit to any of you and i watch simple fails happen all day every day. but gg im unvouched right now for a pull i admitted to but somebody gotta hate.

You can't just play the victim all of a sudden. For months you would flame and cry TK in multiple games. I remember one game we were 3 heals behind, outrolled, and had wave vs. immo and you accused me and Donki of TK and throwing away "free win". No offence and I mean this in the most objective way possible but your average 1200+ player probably has as much if not more game sense than you. Pretty much any game you're in is unpleasant for me since I have to be worried about being reported for the minorest technicalities and I have to play with someone that doesn't take advice, doesn't play well, and in general lowers the quality of the games. In fact, one reason why I've stopped playing so much lately is if I see you signed (and you pretty much always are) I just don't want to play at all because no matter what team you're on I feel I won't enjoy the game.

but Shrimp is good enough to justifiy him being in LIHL.

That's your opinion though. I'm certain many will agree he is not suitable based on skill and attitude. I suggest we make a poll and let the community vote.