poll elo system

[pewpew lasergun]

i think lihl was running smoother with mickey's system random/15/15.
the majority of players use !votebalance every game, its very annoying and defeats the purpose of random teams.
maybe bring back next season random/15/15 or curve the elo drastically ( 15/15 2s, 20/10 max any game, curve elo )

mickey diablo pls put in greet lihl channel.

[SLSGuennter]

When it was random and 15/15, all did complain, now its smth else, again all complain ... back when it was teams by Elo, all were complaining This will keep happening, no matter what system is chosen.

[FadingSuns]

When it was random and 15/15, all did complain, now its smth else, again all complain ... back when it was teams by Elo, all were complaining This will keep happening, no matter what system is chosen.

Thats totally true, i guess this is all about to find the way to have the most happy ppl possible. I really dont care whats the outcome, what i ask for all is to admit the result, in case the result is "keep it as it is now", we should just stop the VB everygame.

[IOnlySendDinos]

I'd just like to point out a few issues I have with "Random teams, 15/15 all games."
With this system there's no elo ceiling or floor. (As it just represents w-l)
Why is this a problem? Any player able to consistently achieve a positive win rate could climb to the number 1 spot without necessarily being the best player of the season (you just have to be in the top 50% and play enough). You might just decide to play vs less skilled players/dodge more skilled players to achieve this positive wr. (usually an elo system would compensate for this by awarding less elo for wins and taking more for losses)
Players in the lower half of the league with a negative wr would be consistently punished for being active. With this system a player with 100 wins 120 losses would have 700 elo. If they play another 220 games maintaining the same wr they would now have 400 elo. This would likely discourage activity in the lower half of the league once players reach a number they don't want to fall below. And with no elo floor people in the lower half of the league would keep falling.
I think it's a waste having an elo system tell us what we already know from W/L.
Why don't we just keep the current system (remove votebalance if you want to keep random teams) and all chip in $0.05 to mail a cookie to the person with the biggest w-l.
Rose <3

[FadingSuns]

Also, the poll system that we use I think is not the correct one. It result that the solution most voted has not even the 50% of the votes. So my proposal would be another poll with the most 2 voted options on this poll, so at the end we can have the 100% of the votes divided into the most "popular" options. This way, the people that has voted an option that is not included on the last 2, could derive the vote to the final one.

To explain this better, right now we have:

4, 11, 5 and 3 votes for the different possibilities. If we make a "Repoll" on the options with 11 and 5 votes, it might be the case that the people that voted for the option with 4 or 3 votes, derive the vote with the solution that currently has 5 votes and at the end we would have 11 vs 12 votes. Maybe i am overthinking about it, but seems a way to have a better agreement on the final option.

[Nore]

Honestly, the only reasonable fix I can find is either bring back the oldest system(that worked fine) which is elo with matchups(aka highest with lowests ect..) or bring back last season's 15/15 random teams. This new system has proven already that it doesn't work.. many people aren't even big on playing that used to be since its implementation, and it just doesn't promote a "pro" atmosphere. Why would I want to sign games that are 20/10 almost 90% of the time? And then if we votebalance, 1 or 2 cry about not wanting the balance.. but it still gets balanced most times..? Clearly it is just failing miserably; please remove and don't bring this back again.

[Don_Killuminati]

I voted balanced games, back to old days.
I'm also fine with pts system but still need to find an alternative to dc pen,
Also random teams with ilo formula elo is funny, but most of ppls care much about scores.
At least, balanced games give to elo his signification.

[Jamo]

When it was random and 15/15, all did complain, now its smth else, again all complain ... back when it was teams by Elo, all were complaining This will keep happening, no matter what system is chosen.

Thats totally true, i guess this is all about to find the way to have the most happy ppl possible. I really dont care whats the outcome, what i ask for all is to admit the result, in case the result is "keep it as it is now", we should just stop the VB everygame.

I'm totally on your side Guenni and Ace. There will always be people complaining and I already start to not care anymore what the outcome is. I'm just thinking how sad this is for the admins involved, doing all the adjustments every season, and then most players still complain and are not satisfied and they even do this one week after a new system was established... That's just disrespectful imo.
There will never be a system everybody likes so maybe at some point one should also be open for compromises.

I don't care what the elo system will be, but I voted for the current system because I think it's really fair. I think most agree with random teams, I like that too, I just don't get why the team skill shouldn't be reflected at least a bit in the elo function. So just don't change the system again once the next one is established, so we can maybe focus more on playing instead of discussing the elo system all the time.

best,
Jamo

ps: I know, deep down, nobody cares elo... pff, I always laugh when I read this nowadays...

[Jamo]

btw, can someone explain to me the difference between choices #1 and #3? I don't get it actually, prolly because I don't understand #3. Different elo for 2s games?

[pewpew lasergun]

2s always 15/15 and there is a cap of 20/10 for all games 3 and 4s
option 1 if there is lets say 100 elo difference it will be 21/9
under option 3 the same game with 100 elo difference will be about 17/13
.

[Jamo]

option 1 if there is lets say 100 elo difference it will be 21/9
under option 3 the same game with 100 elo difference will be about 17/13

Nope. 100 elo diff = roughly 12.5/17.5 at the very moment!
So still everybody is confusing the current with the old one... which is why people are votebalancing...

[Don_Killuminati]

Guess current system applied ilo formula already, which its curved elo with 20max 10min.

[pewpew lasergun]

it was an example jamo to make you understand the concept not the actual elo calculation

[Dong]

why are we even doing this again, over and over and over, we vote and decide on one thing, and before we can even grasp what it actually does or means, we instantly start to complain and want something different.. i mean come on. If this vote thing even counts, it first apply in the new season.

the same discussions over and over again, gets boring, just focus on enjoying the game people. It is not that hard.

Besides the options in this poll, is kinda confusing, and not great at all for such a serious matter like this...

Dong out-

[Jamo]

it was an example jamo to make you understand the concept not the actual elo calculation

Well, then I don't get it because for me it looks like what you suggest is implemented at the moment. (neglecting differences for 2s).

Dong, thumbs up!