[LTD] [HHTD] Sandramo@entconnect

[GEN_Schwarzkopf]

Replay Link: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 723438.w3g
Game Name: [ENT] HELLHALT TD #32
Your Warcraft III Username: LEGION_ONE
Violator's Warcraft III Username: Sandramo
Violated Rule(s): Do not teamkill, Refusing to learn/co-operate
Time of Violation (in-game or replay): 31 min, 34 min, 37 min, 41 min.

(4 incidences of non-cooperation, the 4th throws the game as the other team sends.)

(31:24 / Allied) LEGION_ONE: you guys both can get level 15 seraphim by 17 right?
(31:33 / Allied) Rageness: yes
(31:36 / Allied) Sandramo: nah
(31:47 / Allied) LEGION_ONE: you don't know how orange?
(31:51 / Allied) KooKeY: seriously
(31:52 / Allied) Sandramo: i do

<He knows how to do seraphim. He just refuses first request.>

(34:14 / Allied) Sandramo: one can only pray, and i guess thats why we have 2 other people able to surge for 17
(34:28 / Allied) LEGION_ONE: you need to be responsible too; which is why I ask do you not know how

<He refuses to be responsible for his part.>

<Second request to get seraphim, other team has saved from level 14.>

(37:13 / Allied) Jihyo: rage 19 again
(37:14 / Allied) LEGION_ONE: it's all about supporting the sera now
(37:15 / Allied) Jihyo: lol
(37:25 / Allied) Jihyo: do that trick again and kill his last surge
(37:59 / Allied) LEGION_ONE: orange will you have sera on 19
(38:19 / Allied) Sandramo: When are we sending
(38:22 / Allied) LEGION_ONE: 20

< He just continues massing cavalier >

(41:07 / Allied) LEGION_ONE: orange will you have level 20 seraphim on 20
(41:11 / Allied) wowwowwow: got pudge lol
(41:19 / Allied) Jihyo: fun
(41:23 / Allied) Sandramo: green will you ever stop pestering me
(41:28 / Allied) Rageness: lol
(41:32 / Allied) LEGION_ONE: You MUST have level 20 seraphim on 20
(41:34 / Allied) LEGION_ONE: Yes or no
(41:44 / Allied) LEGION_ONE: because you don't have shit built yet better hurry

< He makes no attempt to make seraphim for 20 so we can hold, throws game massing cavalier. >


Any further thoughts:

The 4th game throwing non-cooperative response is reason for ban request. Even 2 or 3 times is tolerable, but this is spiteful and willful disregard for following team strategy.

[samcrow]

Even though he should have gotten a Seraphim you cannot force someone into a certain build. The player is free to do as how he or she pleases. Even if you don't agree with it. Building badly isn't the same as trolling imo.

[GEN_Schwarzkopf]

Hello samcrow, what is your involvement here? Were you in this game, or are you an admin?

If you were not actually in the game I don't see your business here. You are not a witness to the real time.

We discussed with team getting seraphim and who and how many surges needed, etc. My ally was on board of course, but this player MADE SURE he did not work with the other 2 players for 4 consecutive attempts to communicate in the time leading up. By his own admission he knew how to do it, so this move is team killing out of spite, not incompetence. He knew full well massing cavaliers from level 14 will not hold 20.

Furthermore, if anyone could give the benefit of the doubt on incompetence, it is most certainly Refusing to learn/co-operate.

[samcrow]

Hello samcrow, what is your involvement here? Were you in this game, or are you an admin?

I don't think its a requirement to be in a game or an admin to be allowed to leave a reply. Since it's an open forum I feel everybody is allowed to reply.

Secondly, as I stated before, u cannot force someone in a certain tactic. But you're going in circles anyhow. Im curious how a mod will review this, but imo this request isnt really based on anything. He knows how to get a Seraphim but that doesn't mean he is obligated to get a Seraphim every game.

Alltogether I dont think there's a real violation here.

Seems to me you're grieving over some lost ELO.

[CrimsonDervish]

Because drawing due to being bad at game is not a valid reason to !draw, they can !ff, in my opinion.

[GEN_Schwarzkopf]

The rules could not be more clear:

Refusing to build in attempt to teamkill.

Massing cavalier for 20 is a subtle way to teamkill out of spite, when allies are asking to prepare properly for 20 since level 15. There is no excuse for team killing; this is not a gray area.

[samcrow]

Refusing to build in attempt to teamkill.

He did build, just poorly. It is most certainly a gray area. Is building badly the same as refusing to build? I personally don't think so. Refusing to build is sitting on gold instead of building, which indeed is trying to teamkill. This guy just built like he wanted to. Even if you don't approve, its a teamgame. Cant force someone to do whatever you want. He did build, just wrong. Not the same as refusing to build. Even if 10 people would tell him what to do, he isnt obligated to do so. As long as he's building.

Says the guy who reports people for drawing.

Which is relevant how in this brq? You report people for breaking the rules? Drawing for no valid reason is the same.

[CrimsonDervish]

Legion, maybe if you would change your boss attitude towards people, and Ask them kindly and nicely, they would be more willing to cooperate?

Just saying.

I also agree with Samcrow. He did not refuse to built, he did built. Sera is not must-built stated by rules. I agree that Sera became a meta, but you can't Force it into people. Maybe being nicer could work.

[GEN_Schwarzkopf]

CrimsomDervish, you have now been told twice by admins to stay away from me, yet here you are.

[CrimsonDervish]

Im just leaving my opinion on the request. As Sam said, we're all free to write here and leave our opinion.

[halo_mauler]

Level 20 sera is the meta these days for level 20. Not sure what he was thinking not even trying the team could have used 3. Also you cant force someone to build a certain way it seemed to me he was trying. 100's of hhtd games so new/bad does not apply. This leaves refusing to learn or cooperate. He did cooperate all game with sends and upping. Seems like he was trying to get by 17 and didnt think the game would go past and felt he couldnt get sera uped 50/50 w/o him here to say who knows. So on this instance I will give Sandramo a warning ban for refusing to learn.
http://wiki.entgaming.net/index.php?tit ... ming:Rules
Do not refuse to learn/and or cooperate: this does not mean being new/bad is bannable.