Riziy vk abuse

[Wolke]

Replay Link: https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=11738065
Game Name: https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=11738065
Your Warcraft III Username: Wolke
Violator's Warcraft III Username: Riziy entconnect

Violated Rule(s): If a votekick is initiated to kick a visible game ruiner, all players are obligated to !yes.
It is possible to game ruin by being new. In this case, votekick will only be valid if the new player refuses to learn and cooperate. Just because someone is a newbie or bad does not mean he is intentionally game ruining.
When you initiate a !votekick, you should clearly explain "Who" and "How" the violator is game ruining via all chat.
You are free to refuse to votekick someone when there is lack of evidence/visible rule violation. However, communicate your decision via all chat, too.
If you are unsure that someone on the opposite team is game ruining, ask the other team for clarification via all chat.

Any further thoughts: Both teams send warri, west did 8/8 warri, east (pink) failed to send warri 6/8.
yellow started a vk against him: (01:57 / All) leastjuh: !votekick Stahura . from my perspektive now it seems there was some drama in the game before.
ingame i asked what is going on: (03:36 / All) Wolke: just explain why. I pause the game (dk how to find that on replay so= and wanted to give pink a chance to explain). Red threatend to "report" me.

(05:34 / All) Riziy: never play with this wolke guy
(05:38 / All) Wolke: sec (i paused at this moment)
(05:39 / All) Shockovsky: blue cmon
(05:39 / All) Riziy: See u on forums
(05:40 / All) Riziy: Wolke

then red (Riziy) started a vk against me and i got kicked
(07:48 / All) Riziy: !votekick wolke
(07:53 / All) Riziy: Kick wolke now thx

[Leastjuh]

@Wolke

First its was a very long lobby already where some battering going on. After a while we changed teams so we could start the game. But there was already warning form Stahura that he was a ruin game ruinner. i gave him the doubt and didn't care for it. So when the game starts there was a votekick started against him by Riz. This was not even past. So if you payed attention to the chat you would have seen that there was already some evidence that he was a kown game ruiner.

Spoiler!

(00:13 / All) leastjuh: just play
(00:21 / All) Riziy: u want to let him ruin?
(00:28 / All) chur-moko: see what happens

Then round 1 : its start we said way in advance that we warr. he had time enough he just didn't do it and responded in chat :

Spoiler!

(01:51 / Allied) Stahura: bad karma

Then the second votekick was started against him. Wich fails. Your respons to that was:

Spoiler!

(04:07 / All) Wolke: isn't it normal mega game

-> So basically you are proclaiming that TK is allowed because it mega because its just normal.

Is the voitekick against you illegal? i will let the admins decide but in my eyes it was correct. because you where not following the rules that ent give us.

"You are obligated to !votekick any player that has broken any of ENT's game ruining rules. If someone or several indicate that a particular player is game ruining, you, as a player in the game, are obligated to question/check about the situation/claim." -> There where 6 players (75%) on both teams comferming the game ruiner. Think that is enough evediance.

This game was not a example how a game should be. If you would have kicked 3 time i wouldn't have kicked you. But there was enough reason for you to kicked the game ruiner and go on with the game. But instad you refuse to kick and by this you broke a rule of ent.

[RiziY]

Can't stand ruiners. Wolke has poor principles and refused to votekick. He showed no compassion for the other team or the community as a whole. After he finally votekicked, many rounds later, he did not draw. He stated that would not draw, anyway. He was kicked for refusal to votekick a visible ruiner.

If you ban me you will be supporting people like this. I don't mind spending 2 days off the game but supporting Wolke's selfish, apathetic cause would really disgust me.

[Wolke]

We all know how toxic online communitys can be and i saw many new people kicked on mega bot cause they did mistakes. Even you say he is game ruiner, i want to give him a chance to explain himself. I rly dislike this whichhunt instant votekick stuff. This is why i pause the game to give him time, cause i just saw him failing to send warri, which could be a mistake.

you, as a player in the game, are obligated to question/check about the situation/claim."

You broke the following rule:
First:

you, as a player in the game, are obligated to question/check about the situation/claim."

You didn´t give pink the chance to explain in all chat, or me as somebody who didn´t play the game before a chance to check the situation.
Second:

]Do not abuse !votekick: its only purpose is to kick game ruiners who violate ENT's rules and negatively impact the game for either or both teams in the game

I played my lane and did not solosend etc, still you kick me.

So ofc you can argue about pink beeing a game ruiner and kick him, still i always like to listen to all sides first even if it means 1m pause. If he don´t answer can still kick.
Big Problem i see is votekick me, cause i didn´t brake any rules, just giving the "check the situation" part a higher priority.

[RiziY]

Why do you spend an entire post lying? I'm not going to waste the admins time responding to your lies point by point. The evidence speaks for itself. Don't pretend like you gave a shit when you didn't. You were silent.

[epicdeath]

Since I have a bit of spare time I'll try to help the blue's with this one:

relevant rules:
1. votekick abuse
2. obligation to votekick a visible game ruiner

The initial drama (pink misses warriors)

Spoiler!

So as you can see from player: riziy, (note the timestamp-before pink had any opportunity to even ruin the game)

(00:00 / All) Riziy: A votekick against player [Stahura] has been started by player [Riziy]. 5 votes are needed within 60 seconds to pass.

so, then pink misses his warrior send-unlikely to be an accident based off this TEAMCHAT:

(01:51 / Allied) Stahura: bad karma

It's impossible for west team to see/know this unless they are told by east team, since east never communicates this it must be assumed by west that he missed his send, i.e. he made a mistake. This does not allow for a votekick within the rules from west since pink is not a visible game ruiner at this point.

second votekick started at 1:57 for missing warriors:

(01:57 / All) Riziy: A votekick against player [Stahura] has been started by player [leastjuh]. 5 votes are needed within 60 seconds to pass.

here is the explanation

(01:59 / All) Shockovsky: I still think he's a fuckin terrorist
(02:02 / All) leastjuh: he is tking in game chat

Here the OP expresses his very reasonable doubt about the legitimacy of the vk and the state of the game afterwards:

(02:40 / Allied) Wolke: ?
(03:00 / All) Wolke: you want 4v3 ?

and here is the response from player riziy: (please note the absence of explanation and initiation of abusive votekick against the OP) :

(02:55 / Allied) Riziy: ik you are scared of life
(02:56 / Allied) Riziy: but type !yes
(03:00 / Allied) Riziy: you nutless fuck
(03:04 / All) Riziy: !votekick wolke
(03:04 / All) Riziy: A votekick against player [Wolke] has been started by player [Riziy]. 5 votes are needed within 60 seconds to pass.

The first abusive votekick against the OP

Spoiler!

and the explanation of the kick against the OP, keeping in mind that votekick is intended for those breaching the game ruining rules:

(03:04 / All) Riziy: A votekick against player [Wolke] has been started by player [Riziy]. 5 votes are needed within 60 seconds to pass.
(03:07 / All) mike.jones: just kick draw
(03:08 / All) Riziy: kick wolke first
(03:21 / All) Riziy: Reason: Failure to kick TKer

Here we see green again fail to communicate WHY pink should be kicked and HOW he has broken ENT rules:

(03:27 / All) mike.jones: blue just kick pink please
(03:36 / All) Wolke: just explain why
(03:40 / All) mike.jones: he is tk

Here we FINALLY have a legitimate explanation from east:

(03:47 / All) mike.jones: he refused to send with team
(03:48 / All) leastjuh: he is missing send with purpose
(03:52 / All) mike.jones: and says its "bad karma" for us
(03:58 / All) mike.jones: thers 2 reason

However if pink is votekicked at this point the game is ruined anyway, additionally kicking over what appears a one off mistake is both hasty and in breach of ENT rules. Wolke was correct to express scepticism and concern for the state of the game if he assisted in kicking over a one off missed send.

Anyway the OP now types !yes and pink is kicked, I believe that the votekick against pink SHOULD NOT have passed, he began communicating strategy with his team again but was kick regardless. The OP was spammed into typing !yes unfortunately.

(06:16 / Allied) Stahura: now 7?
(07:39 / Allied) Wolke: !yes
(07:39 / All) Riziy: A votekick against player [Stahura] has passed.

The second abusive votekick against the OP

Spoiler!

Immediately after kicking pink a votekick is started against the OP for no reason:

(07:53 / All) Riziy: Kick wolke now thx
(08:10 / Allied) mike.jones: !votekick wolke
(08:10 / All) Riziy: A votekick against player [Wolke] has been started by player [mike.jones]. 4 votes are needed within 60 seconds to pass.
(08:30 / All) Riziy: A votekick against player [Wolke] has passed.
(08:30 / All) Riziy: Wolke was kicked by vote.

This votekick was 100% abusive, there was absolutely no reason it should have been initiated and even less reason it should have passed.

SO to sum up:
The OP was not obligated to kick pink initially as there was no clear information about his game ruining provided, it looked like a mistake. When the relevant information was finally provided the OP decided to write !yes. Unfortunately east team did not deign to inform west that pink actually began to communicate within his team again.

Two abusive votekicks were initiated against the OP

1. Initiated by player: riziy
players who voted: shockovsky, mike.jones, chur-moko, leastjuh

2. initiated by player: mike.jones and riziy (pushed it heavily in allchat)
players who voted: shockovsky, chur-moko, leastjuh

players riziy and mike.jones should receive a longer ban for initiating abusive votekicks

players leastjuh, chur-moko and shockovsky should receive a shorter ban/warning for participating in two abusive votekicks.

Cheers

[Leastjuh]

@epicdeath Thxs for your insight i follow your judgement. and agree that the votekickes where abusive if you follow the strict game rule. But if 6/8 are telling that he was game ruining last game and he is doing it again then questioning is bit lacking of respect to the other players. I am always the first to give the doubt to people.

iNote : i just noticed that he was the last player to join in lobby chat so he couldn't have seen the lobby chat before. Anyway ill accepted the warning/ban if the ent staff feels like it.

[RiziY]

@epicdeath,

If you're going to give a detailed analysis, atleast look into the ruiners previous games.

As the for the argument of what constitutes an abusive votekick, I will cite a similar situation which was escalated to the complaints: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=116831

Jabba41: "... i trust some players that i've met a hundred times and vote !yes if they tell me someone refuses for example, keep this in mind in the futue. As long as the votekick wasnt abusive it dosnt matter. "

Hazardous:
"... Whenever it is hard to judge whether one is ruining the game or not, then you must assume that it is equally hard, if not harder, for those who are playing the game. If they assess that one is trolling/game ruining, and they have valid arguments to make that claim, then they shall not be banned for votekicking said player. In such case, ENT will merely not take actions against the "troll" should he be reported on forums afterward and you deem his actions not to be ban-able. "

[SnowwyWolf]

riziy and mike.jones both get a 2 day ban for vote kick abuse, including known aliases.
leastjuh, chur-moko and shockovsky all get a warning for vote kick abuse.

I agree with Epicdeaths analysis of the situation :
players riziy and mike.jones should receive a longer ban for initiating abusive votekicks
players leastjuh, chur-moko and shockovsky should receive a shorter ban/warning for participating in two abusive votekicks.