Ban appeal

[CupcakeKilla]

Your Warcraft III username: CupcakeMafia
Realm/Gateway: Uswest
Why are you banned: Larz banned me for initiating votekick against him
Why you should be unbanned: I complain that Larz (techies) to place mines. He then complains that "why place mines if u will lead creeps to them". I say put them in better locations then. So then 5 min later he has no mines, and he just confirms he refuses to lay mines, so I votekick.

Also, Is one votekick a form of votekick abuse? I have had other mods say that is not so, in game. For example if I am votekicked by a player for not a good reason and a admin is in game, I appeal to the admin and they say one votekick is not abuse. So someone is confused here.

Here is the game replay link:
http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 706351.w3g

Here are (imo) the relevant conversations:

(09:46 / Allied) CupcakeMafia: oh this team
(09:56 / Allied) CupcakeMafia: I SENSE A STRONG LACK OF SKILL
(10:02 / Allied) Larz: you just led a ton of creeps to mines
(10:13 / Allied) CupcakeMafia: u just failed to plant effective mines
(10:20 / Allied) Larz: ok


(14:28 / Allied) CupcakeMafia: GOOD MINES
(14:43 / Allied) Larz: why place them you will lead creeps toi them
(14:51 / Allied) CupcakeMafia: WHY PLACE THEM AT ALL
(14:53 / Allied) CupcakeMafia: WHO NEEDS MINES
(14:54 / Allied) CupcakeMafia: WITH TECHIES
(14:56 / Allied) CupcakeMafia: AMIRITE?
(16:56 / Allied) CupcakeMafia: 4 bot
(16:58 / Allied) CupcakeMafia: NICE MINES
(17:26 / Allied) CupcakeMafia: !votekick larz
(17:26 / All) OrcGasam: A votekick against player [Larz] has been started by player [CupcakeMafia]. 7 votes are needed within 60 seconds to pass.
(17:26 / All) OrcGasam: Type !yes to vote.
(17:26 / All) OrcGasam: ** Note: !votekick should only be used to kick players breaking a rule. You should not votekick players new to the game!
(17:28 / All) CupcakeMafia: kick plz
(17:33 / All) CupcakeMafia: refuses to help team
(17:41 / Allied) Larz: !ban cup vk abusew
(17:41) PlayWithNoob killed G4zIm
(17:41 / All) OrcGasam: Player [CupcakeMafia] was banned by player [Larz] on server [uswest.battle.net].
(17:53 / Allied) CupcakeMafia: reported
(17:55 / Allied) CupcakeMafia: 1 kick is abuse?
(17:56 / Allied) CupcakeMafia: i dont think so
(17:59 / All) OrcGasam: ANNOUNCEMENT: !votebalance has been implemented for those who wish to play autobalanced games.
(18:00 / Allied) Larz: yes it is
(18:12) hychem killed hychem
(18:14 / Allied) CupcakeMafia: we can let admin decide
(18:21 / Allied) Larz: i am admin
(18:24 / Allied) CupcakeMafia: !ignore larz
(18:26 / All) OrcGasam: A votekick against player [Larz] has expired.

And that was really it. Perhaps another admin at a higher level can clarify.


Edits: formatting

@larz
@hazardous

[Larz]

I was placing mines you lead creeps to them....i wasnt level 6 yet to for remotes and you kept leading the enemy to me..... any vote kick is against the rules unless a player is breaking the rules.

http://wiki.entgaming.net/index.php?tit ... ng:VKRules
Do not spam or randomly start !votekicks, do not !votekick to avoid being kicked, and do not !votekick without proper reasons. Votekicks are ban-able even if they are not passed since negative intentions can still be assessed and misusing it can lead others to misuse it. Kicks and bans are enforced based on how severe the rule has been violated. ENT keeps the right to enforce punishments as warning.
@CupcakeKilla

[CupcakeKilla]

Appreciate your input but I would like another mod or admin to review this case. @radiantcrystal

Frankly, I led creeps to mines once. And you publicly told me in chat that you would not place mines. Is that not reason to suspect game ruining?

Regarding the number of votekick to be considered abuse, perhaps clarification among the fellow mods is needed, as I have had the opposite experience in the past with Larz as a mod reviewing the case:

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=101020

http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 512837.w3g

(18:28 / All) MonkeyKnuts4U: i report u guys
(18:33 / All) MonkeyKnuts4U: for votekick abuse
(18:38 / All) BeerLord: 1 attempt not abuse
(18:44 / All) MonkeyKnuts4U: ok
(18:46 / All) BeerLord: report if more

@larz

[SeriouslyStrange]

@CupcakeKilla it is to the moderator's decision whether or not a votekick is abusive or not.
Your votekick is definitely abusive as there was no rule broken.
Apart from that, you lie to the opposing team for the kick:
(17:28 / All) CupcakeMafia: kick plz
(17:33 / All) CupcakeMafia: refuses to help team

[CupcakeKilla]

@CupcakeKilla it is to the moderator's decision whether or not a votekick is abusive or not.
Your votekick is definitely abusive as there was no rule broken.
Apart from that, you lie to the opposing team for the kick:
(17:28 / All) CupcakeMafia: kick plz
(17:33 / All) CupcakeMafia: refuses to help team

I just put this in my above comment but will report here for completeness:

Frankly, I led creeps to mines once. And Larz publicly told me in chat that he would not place mines. Is that not reason to suspect game ruining?

[SeriouslyStrange]

@CupcakeKilla , not placing mines for the whole game? Perhaps.
You started the votekick after four minutes.
Secondly, a player SAYING something does not equate to them doing it.
If I say I will AFK, I cannot be banned IF i DONT AFK. If I do, that's another story.

[Larz]

I did place more mines at that time I was making a comment as to I place mines complained you led creeps the tem and then you told me bad placement....This is on you.

Not to mention this is your second case of vote kick abuse this month...

Tell me when i did not place mines.

You led creeps to mines on a ramp by bot rune you could have led them away this is your comment
(10:02 / Allied) Larz: you just led a ton of creeps to mines
(10:13 / Allied) CupcakeMafia: u just failed to plant effective mines
(10:20 / Allied) Larz: ok

Then after you do that you call me useless

(10:40 / Allied) CupcakeMafia: useless
(10:55) CupcakeMafia killed SoloKiD
(10:57 / Allied) CupcakeMafia: lmao
(11:06 / Allied) SoloKiD: b
(11:06 / Allied) SoloKiD: b
(11:07 / Allied) SoloKiD: b
(11:13 / Allied) CupcakeMafia: oh larz
(11:16 / Allied) OrcGasam: b
(11:19 / Allied) Ateist: ty
(11:20 / Allied) CupcakeMafia: maybe
(11:20 / Allied) CupcakeMafia: ward
(11:22 / Allied) CupcakeMafia: farm
(11:24 / Allied) CupcakeMafia: and get sheep

(14:26 / Allied) CupcakeMafia: G
(14:28 / Allied) CupcakeMafia: GOOD MINES
(14:43 / Allied) Larz: why place them you will lead creeps toi them
(14:51 / Allied) CupcakeMafia: WHY PLACE THEM AT ALL
(14:53 / Allied) CupcakeMafia: WHO NEEDS MINES
(14:54 / Allied) CupcakeMafia: WITH TECHIES
(14:56 / Allied) CupcakeMafia: AMIRITE?
(16:56 / Allied) CupcakeMafia: 4 bot

I never said I would no longer place any mines.

I was a mile away from you and you wanted me to cross half the map to help you. I was placing mines at the entrance to their secret shop at this time.

So I was placing mines when i siad why should I place mine.

[CupcakeKilla]

The 5 minutes between creeps blowing up ur mines and u placing mines at shop, u had no mines.

When I See 5 minutes of nothing, followed up by u saying something like "why bother placing mines anymore", that tells me ur throwing the game.

Additionally, I am not really satisfied with your explanation as to what is considered votekick abuse. It seems to change whenever it is convenient. On one thread you confirm a mod's decision that "1 kick is not votekick abuse" and on this thread you are saying the opposite, and then uphold a ban where you yourself previously indicated otherwise.

[Merex]

What was your reason for initiating a votekick?

[Larz]

That explanation was taken right from our wiki..... click on the link I provided .
review the game i never went 5 min with out placing a mine....just because they are running them over or warding does not mean I am not placing.

[CupcakeKilla]

I accidently lead creeps to Larz's mines.

Five minutes later he has no mines. I ask where the mines are. He says "why place mines if u are going to blow them up".

Game ruining.

[CupcakeKilla]

That explanation was taken right from our wiki..... click on the link I provided .
review the game i never went 5 min with out placing a mine....just because they are running them over or warding does not mean I am not placing.

Then why do mods not enforce the own rule?

"You are obligated to !votekick any player that has broken any of ENT's rules. If someone or several indicate that a particular player is game ruining, you, as a player in the game, are obligated to question/check about the situation/claim."

In my other game a mod literally says about an illegitimate votekick:
"1 votekick is not abuse", and you backed him up when I lodged a complaint about it.

I don't get a sense of consistency in how the rules are applied. It seems like the "it's at the mods discretion" clause is the ultimate get out of jail free card.

I'll take my ban and file a complaint, at this point it's a waste of time arguing my case

[Larz]

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