Ban for "votekick abuse"?

[Astros]

(30:50 / All) PucziPuczi: are you retarded
(30:54 / All) PucziPuczi: hes trying to kill me
(30:56 / All) PucziPuczi: he didnt just suicide
(31:01 / All) !VOTEKlCK: kill 1 and die
(31:03 / All) !VOTEKlCK: worth?
(31:10 / All) PucziPuczi: who cares? its not reason to kick
(31:22 / All) Agreement: lmao he selling items is a reason
(31:24 / All) !VOTEKlCK: how about
(31:25 / All) Agreement: to dagon 5
(31:26 / All) !VOTEKlCK: selling item?
(31:26 / All) Agreement: suicide
(31:28 / All) GodSaveTheQQs: if he slod his items its a reason
(31:32 / All) GodSaveTheQQs: sold*
(31:36 / All) PucziPuczi: yes, thats reason to kick
(31:36 / All) Agreement: !votekick master
(31:36 / All) masterkiller: A votekick against player [masterkiller] has been started by player [Agreement]. 7 votes are needed within 60 seconds to pass.
(31:39 / Allied) PucziPuczi: !yes
(31:41 / Allied) TheSilentPirate: !yes
(31:41 / Allied) GodSaveTheQQs: !yes
(31:45 / All) !VOTEKlCK: !yes
(31:48 / Allied) xxxZIONxxx: !yes
(31:51 / Allied) jetencule: !yes
(31:57 / All) GodSaveTheQQs: 1 more
(31:58 / All) masterkiller: you all getting posted
(32:12 / All) PucziPuczi: They said u destroyed items
(32:16 / All) masterkiller: lies
(32:20 / Allied) GetFit: !yes
(32:20 / All) masterkiller: A votekick against player [masterkiller] has passed.
(32:20 / All) masterkiller: masterkiller was kicked by vote.

1) Puczi admits furion wasn't intentionally dying and was trying to kill him.
2) "Yes, he sold items." Okay, I'll vote !yes without checking if he actually did!


Selling your item(s) is only ban-able if it is to intentionally game ruin. Selling your boots at a loss of 225 gold is not game-ruining and so there was no malicious intent as to why he sold his boots. If you guys would want me to ban people for selling items such as clarity potion, iron wood branches, etc., all of you would be banned.

Also, read how puczi states that Scourge said Furion destroyed his items. No one ever said Furion destroyed his items so Puczi voted !yes to kick someone by claiming Furion destroyed his items when it was literally never mentioned by anyone other than himself.

[aimskjs]

Me and agreement didn't lie. He actually sold his boots for upgrading dagon and then tped to enemy to die. But the problem with votekick abuse is it was regular boots. not travel boots(my bad I thought its travel boots). and ppl think selling regular boots is not big deal. and one time suspicious suicide isn't enough evidence what mods said. this is shit happen. Its sad that we have no way to ban ppl like this furoin who is smart enough to avoid getting banned with troll because we can't prove it. Also I believe selling boots either regular boots or travel boots and then dying to 3 hero repeatadely is bannable. but it is all about circumstantial evidence which isn't enough to ban.

[Astros]

Were you on the sentinels? If you are on the sentinels, you got screwed. If you are on the scourge, I still defended you but you have clear vision to see what Furion was doing and whether he sold boots.

To me it isn't fair b/c
- there is communication
- you were lied to and threatened
- generally kick is warranted when you have multiple confirmation, reasons given, etc... which in this case were. Every scourge voted, 2 of them lied and quite loudly lied in details about the kick. They didn't just say he sold boots, but accused him of game ruining and feeding. You have no reason not to kick base on the information, especially in a recent case where a whole team was banned for not VK.

In the future, if you do votekick or don't votekick type in:
!timestamp I'm votekicking b/c reasons were provided and multiple confirmation from the opposing team.

or

!timestamp I'm not votekicking b/c not enough evidence were provided to make a certain determination.

This way you cover your ass.

None of what you said is true. Furion did TP into three enemy players (mistakingly, IMO), and died. That wasn't intentional feeding nor was he kicked for that reason. Read the chat. What convinced them to kick Furion was that they thought Furion had sold or destroyed his items. That wasn't the case. They had no evidence of that. What pink, DG, or the majority of scourge doing doesn't change the fact that it was an abusive votekick and that Sentinel could have essentially avoided all of this by checking/asking if Furion actually sold or destroyed any core items by checking his inventory the next time they see him.

[Astros]

You voted !yes in a votekick against a player (me) who didn't break any rules.

So I'm banned because your team lied about you and I believed them? Why the hell would I ask you, if even your teammates voted to kick you?
If you were a game-ruining troll would you say "yes I sold/destroyed my items, I deserve kick"?

Use your brain and don't behave like a kid. If someone deserves a ban, its' player who lied about you.

What's the point to ban players, who want to kick a supposed troll from enemy team? Sure, ban me, make me think twice next time before I vote to kick a true game ruiner from enemy team

You kicked Furion because he supposedly destroyed his items. No one ever mentioned anything about destroying items except you. So you basically voted !yes to kick Furion based on something that you made up. How in any world is that fair to anyone? I don't care if you have 100 ELO or 2000 ELO. Every player deserves to play the game and if they don't break any rules, they shouldn't be kicked the way you guys opted to kick him.

[Astros]

Me and agreement didn't lie. He actually sold his boots for upgrading dagon and then tped to enemy to die. But the problem with votekick abuse is it was regular boots. not travel boots(my bad I thought its travel boots). and ppl think selling regular boots is not big deal. and one time suspicious suicide isn't enough evidence what mods said. this is shit happen. Its sad that we have no way to ban ppl like this furoin who is smart enough to avoid getting banned with troll because we can't prove it. Also I believe selling boots either regular boots or travel boots and then dying to 3 hero repeatadely is bannable. but it is all about circumstantial evidence which isn't enough to ban.

I didn't say you or Agreements lied but if we're going to kick people based on accusations with minimal evidence, then there really wouldn't be anyone available to fill DotA games at all.

[Astros]

Me and agreement didn't lie. He actually sold his boots for upgrading dagon and then tped to enemy to die. But the problem with votekick abuse is it was regular boots. not travel boots(my bad I thought its travel boots). and ppl think selling regular boots is not big deal. and one time suspicious suicide isn't enough evidence what mods said. this is shit happen. Its sad that we have no way to ban ppl like this furoin who is smart enough to avoid getting banned with troll because we can't prove it. Also I believe selling boots either regular boots or travel boots and then dying to 3 hero repeatadely is bannable. but it is all about circumstantial evidence which isn't enough to ban.

He died once, not repeatedly. If he was TPing into players recklessly time after time, you would have a valid case. One death isn't sufficient evidence to kick anyone unless they are TPing into the fountain, etc., He used a bad teleport and died, period. There's nothing wrong with selling any item if you aren't maliciously trying to ruin the game. Obviously you shouldn't sell a core item to build a less effective item but really, are we going to start kicking people for selling an item that could be farmed in under 30 seconds?

[no2]

Have we made similar mistakes in the past? It’s easy for you to say this after the fact and looking at whatever you’re looking at but if this isn’t black/white situation, I don’t see how you can ban us. This is probably the most annoyed I’ve been since playing Dota. The truth is I don’t have the time and energy to be posting things like to get into argument about who’s right or who’s wrong.

As for selling boots, no player in their right mind will sell boots into 30 mins of game. That alone if we’re on the other side should not be banned. He’s obviously trolling and ruin game. The fact that he probably played over 250 games and his elo is less than 800 with positive kd says all. If you can’t see it and want to talk about circumstantial evidence all, that’s all BS. No wonder this Dota can’t get a game going nowadays.

[Astros]

Have we made similar mistakes in the past? It’s easy for you to say this after the fact and looking at whatever you’re looking at but if this isn’t black/white situation, I don’t see how you can ban us. This is probably the most annoyed I’ve been since playing Dota. The truth is I don’t have the time and energy to be posting things like to get into argument about who’s right or who’s wrong.

As for selling boots, no player in their right mind will sell boots into 30 mins of game. That alone if we’re on the other side should not be banned. He’s obviously trolling and ruin game. The fact that he probably played over 250 games and his elo is less than 800 with positive kd says all. If you can’t see it and want to talk about circumstantial evidence all, that’s all BS. No wonder this Dota can’t get a game going nowadays.

Okay, according to you, people should be banned because they sold an item for a loss of 225 gold. Post that on the suggestions and let's see who votes for it, please. It also doesn't really matter what his ELO is (unless it becomes a fishy situation where a player is clearly a far better player than they are playing in the majority of their games). Did he break a rule? No. So bring a valid argument if you want to actually discuss what occurred.

[aimskjs]

Me and agreement didn't lie. He actually sold his boots for upgrading dagon and then tped to enemy to die. But the problem with votekick abuse is it was regular boots. not travel boots(my bad I thought its travel boots). and ppl think selling regular boots is not big deal. and one time suspicious suicide isn't enough evidence what mods said. this is shit happen. Its sad that we have no way to ban ppl like this furoin who is smart enough to avoid getting banned with troll because we can't prove it. Also I believe selling boots either regular boots or travel boots and then dying to 3 hero repeatadely is bannable. but it is all about circumstantial evidence which isn't enough to ban.

I didn't say you or Agreements lied but if we're going to kick people based on accusations with minimal evidence, then there really wouldn't be anyone available to fill DotA games at all.

you didn't say we lie. nitromon said it.

[Astros]

Just to add, I've been a huge proponent for banning strategies involving maxed dagon builds and using bear and not Sylla builds. You aren't going to find anyone more discouraging of those strategies than me. But the rules are the rules and it has been shut down many times previously. Maybe if enough of you provided an unanimous case towards it, it can be added but until then, please stop reiterating about the builds. There is nothing I nor other mods can do under the current rules stated.

[aimskjs]

Be honest both mods and players side are absolutely right. Players know the way how furoin plays is absolutely trolling behave with bunch of circumstantial evidence. However, with our current rules and the system which how court in real life does (its not real life court but w/e) mods can't ban player without clear physical evidence. This is bullshit and stupid situation when this furoin is that smart enough to avoid being banned for trolling behave. Sadly, rules are rules but I don't think we will fix our rule with the many case which people already made for this dumb fuck furion kid

[UltraKill]

Me and agreement didn't lie. He actually sold his boots for upgrading dagon and then tped to enemy to die. But the problem with votekick abuse is it was regular boots. not travel boots(my bad I thought its travel boots). and ppl think selling regular boots is not big deal. and one time suspicious suicide isn't enough evidence what mods said. this is shit happen. Its sad that we have no way to ban ppl like this furoin who is smart enough to avoid getting banned with troll because we can't prove it. Also I believe selling boots either regular boots or travel boots and then dying to 3 hero repeatadely is bannable. but it is all about circumstantial evidence which isn't enough to ban.

I didn't say you or Agreements lied but if we're going to kick people based on accusations with minimal evidence, then there really wouldn't be anyone available to fill DotA games at all.

YOU LIED!!! BECAUSE I ACTUALLY DIDN'T SELL ANYTHING!!! EVEN REGULAR BOOTS!!!

The fact that I sold anything - you literally made up out of nowhere, aka lied.

I don't understand how admins unbanned you... You don't understand ANYTHING.

[aimskjs]

You sold boots lol.

[Astros]

No point in dragging this further.. he did nothing wrong and you guys kicked him.