EdteOfChaos2 wrote:This will probably be the last time I try to reason with you Jazzy. One last try though. You seem to view dota as a coin flip whether you get a pro who will carry you, but that's not what dota is about. Dota is about being the carry, not getting carried. Do you think that when Astros/ifck/kunkka/etc join a game, they think to themselves "I hope this team can carry me"? No, they think "I hope I can carry this team" if anything. Doing well isn't something that's reserved for only a few people. Anyone can learn how to play well and win games without relying on your team having an extremely good player who dominates the whole thing.
So instead of blaming "luck", I'll ask you this - how many games have you carried your team? I have almost never seen you once crush the enemy team. And it's not about hero choice, NA and NW are devastating heroes if played correctly. Why do you always expect other people to do it for you instead of doing it yourself? The reason you have "bad luck" compared to other players is because you are literally the only person on ENT who relies on luck to win games instead of skill. Even those trash noobs like napolyon sometimes pop off and do really well. You don't.
Here's an account where I went 7/0 https://entgaming.net/openstats/dota/?u=bobbyfreshstart
No luck. I carried 4 out of 7 games very cleanly with the top player spot, and the other 3 I went 8/2, 10/6, and 2/1 so I still pulled my weight. In one of those games, I even carried a noob called jazzy3113.
Here's an account where I went 16/1 https://entgaming.net/openstats/dota/?u=lol-entnoobs
I carried most games here and the ones I didn't, I still played solid. 3.1 kd.
Can you even link a single game where you did very well? Instead of just sitting there hoping your team does your job for you like you always do?
Also I just want to say 0.9 KD is absolutely horrible particularly when you killsteal with invis mana burn,I have no idea why you wear it like a badge of honor. It means you are a feeder. You can debate whether you should be 400 ELO, 600 ELO, or 800 ELO but seriously who cares. It's all bottom-of-the-barrel noob elo. There's fundamentally no difference in gameplay between someone like you and another horrible player like 13points. However there is a real difference in attitude. You are the only player on ENT who acts like it's your team's responsibility to carry you every game, and scream racial slurs at them when they don't go 15/0. Also when your team does carry you, never even a "thank you" or a "good job". You are the most entitled noob here, which is why none of the really good players want to be on your team anymore. They're all sick of your toxic attitude.
I understand not being pro at the game if you don't spend long playing it; but you do. You play more games than almost anyone else on the server and yet you're still below average and that makes me sad. It's the same thing as Bobby. Thousands of hours, still a beginner.
ban jazzy3113 plz! Afk when CK push mid full health sitting at fountain
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Bobalhao
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Re: ban jazzy3113 plz! Afk when CK push mid full health sitting at fountain
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Re: ban jazzy3113 plz! Afk when CK push mid full health sitting at fountain
EdteOfChaos2 you can't reason with stupid tbh! I made the Jazzy3II3 to show my twin shes retarded by BOOKS :O.. Jazzy don't make comments or say its unfair when you are the handicapp on the team also -_-
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Jazzy3113
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Re: ban jazzy3113 plz! Afk when CK push mid full health sitting at fountain
@EdteOfChaos2
Nice to read a reply that can speak somewhat comprehensible english. I will try to address your points one at a time, since you said you won't respond again.
1. Carry vs being carried. No one is going to argue your point that when you play your attitude should be to do your best and lead your team to victory vs hoping you get a good player. Of course you should go in trying to be an asset and not a liability.
My point is more nuanced. More realistic. Some people are just better at things. I have improved at this game, but unless I really study or practice or not play at work, I have hit my plateau. Maybe if I only played slark and only played when alone, I could achieve tangible improvements. That is a fair point. But this is an escape for me, I do not want to turn it into work. Which brings me to my point.
I am not complaining I never get astros or someone else good to carry me. I am claiming that I get the active ruiners more often than is statistically likely. If it was a fun, competitive game and I lose, thats actually fun. An hour long balanced game where the result is always in doubt? That is super fun. But I will always be more likely to get the player that solos all game, or feeds alone in the jungle, or gets mad and destroys his items or just leaves once they game gets hard. If someone like you gets the ruiner 2/10 games, I get that same person 5/10 games. Not every game, but more than I should. Whether that is because I attract the idiots or people do it on purpose to me or when I yell at people they crumble, I do not know. But it happens more often to me, and a cross section of my games shows that. There is probably some causation to this correlation, likely my attitude, but it happens way more than average. That is my main shock and complaint.
2. You then ask if I have ever carried, and then mention a ruiner like nap who even can "pop off" compared to me. Dude the very last game I played before I got banned this most recent time was [ENT] DotA apem us/ca #64. I literally carried my team AND the game was as usual stacked against me. I was 10-1-9 and my teams highest level hero. Most kills and second most assists. So please at least argue in good faith. I "pop off" as much as any other low elo noob. You make it seem like I never do, which isn't right. Just literally look at my most recent game.
3. You then mention my kdr of 0.9 is quite bad for NA. For all the vitriol i receive, kill striker is never mentioned. I dont do dagon build, and for someone that has played with me so much, I think you know I dont just walk around KSing. I just made a large point to emphasize my assist totals. So i just disagree that all i do is KS. Because for someone that gets insulted as much as I do, KSing is never really mentioned.
4. You then mention that nothing really separates me from someone like 13points. When that is my whole freaking thesis. I am saying that I do not ruin like him and peg and masterpain. That is my entire point. I get wards, I join in team pushes I dont destroy items like them. That is my point. The only thing you mentioned is attitude. And that is fine. When bobby ruins he doesnt flame, he just does it quietly. So maybe I am like Trump and just rub many people the wrong way. But I believe you are arguing in bad faith when you say I am just as bad as someone like masterpain. Really? You think I am worse than someone who solos or feeds or does his own thing all game?
5. In conclusion, your points about trying to be the carry, having a good attitude and not complaining are valid and I do not disagree. My counter is that some people are just better at certain things than others. There are players that just have the dexterity and game knowledge and hero selection to be better. So I can try to be the carry, but thats just unlikely. The best for someone like me is to help in team fights and not feed the enemy. Doesnt mean I cant try to pick slark once in awhile and carry, just that its not likely. As far as attitude, you have no idea how always getting the ruiner can be demoralizing, you would become dour as well if you always got the guy that fed pets as the other team refused to votekick for 15 mins. trust me.
My main gripe really isnt that I dont get the amazing carry player. I tend to piss them off and they avoid me, so that is self harm on my part. My main gripe is that i ALWAYS get the one player who makes it impossible to have a fun game. If i lost an epic game to stackers that is fine. Thats playing a fun game. I am saying that never happens, because someone on my team goes 1-14 and we have no shot.
Do you understand my point? Losing to the slark carry every game wouldn't upset me if my team was competitive and we had a chance. But that never ever happens. I will invariably get the quitter. And yes ofc i noticed when ByeBye! goes 20-1 against me and carries 4 idiots and then goes 6-9 on my team and we lose. But that doesnt trigger me as much as always getting bobby and he always ruining for me.
And some players go out of their way to ruin for me. Draco has done it to me countless times.
This could all be solved so easily. Create a game mode where only accounts with 100+ games can play and default is auto balance where you must actively vote to turn it off. Things like that.
Nice to read a reply that can speak somewhat comprehensible english. I will try to address your points one at a time, since you said you won't respond again.
1. Carry vs being carried. No one is going to argue your point that when you play your attitude should be to do your best and lead your team to victory vs hoping you get a good player. Of course you should go in trying to be an asset and not a liability.
My point is more nuanced. More realistic. Some people are just better at things. I have improved at this game, but unless I really study or practice or not play at work, I have hit my plateau. Maybe if I only played slark and only played when alone, I could achieve tangible improvements. That is a fair point. But this is an escape for me, I do not want to turn it into work. Which brings me to my point.
I am not complaining I never get astros or someone else good to carry me. I am claiming that I get the active ruiners more often than is statistically likely. If it was a fun, competitive game and I lose, thats actually fun. An hour long balanced game where the result is always in doubt? That is super fun. But I will always be more likely to get the player that solos all game, or feeds alone in the jungle, or gets mad and destroys his items or just leaves once they game gets hard. If someone like you gets the ruiner 2/10 games, I get that same person 5/10 games. Not every game, but more than I should. Whether that is because I attract the idiots or people do it on purpose to me or when I yell at people they crumble, I do not know. But it happens more often to me, and a cross section of my games shows that. There is probably some causation to this correlation, likely my attitude, but it happens way more than average. That is my main shock and complaint.
2. You then ask if I have ever carried, and then mention a ruiner like nap who even can "pop off" compared to me. Dude the very last game I played before I got banned this most recent time was [ENT] DotA apem us/ca #64. I literally carried my team AND the game was as usual stacked against me. I was 10-1-9 and my teams highest level hero. Most kills and second most assists. So please at least argue in good faith. I "pop off" as much as any other low elo noob. You make it seem like I never do, which isn't right. Just literally look at my most recent game.
3. You then mention my kdr of 0.9 is quite bad for NA. For all the vitriol i receive, kill striker is never mentioned. I dont do dagon build, and for someone that has played with me so much, I think you know I dont just walk around KSing. I just made a large point to emphasize my assist totals. So i just disagree that all i do is KS. Because for someone that gets insulted as much as I do, KSing is never really mentioned.
4. You then mention that nothing really separates me from someone like 13points. When that is my whole freaking thesis. I am saying that I do not ruin like him and peg and masterpain. That is my entire point. I get wards, I join in team pushes I dont destroy items like them. That is my point. The only thing you mentioned is attitude. And that is fine. When bobby ruins he doesnt flame, he just does it quietly. So maybe I am like Trump and just rub many people the wrong way. But I believe you are arguing in bad faith when you say I am just as bad as someone like masterpain. Really? You think I am worse than someone who solos or feeds or does his own thing all game?
5. In conclusion, your points about trying to be the carry, having a good attitude and not complaining are valid and I do not disagree. My counter is that some people are just better at certain things than others. There are players that just have the dexterity and game knowledge and hero selection to be better. So I can try to be the carry, but thats just unlikely. The best for someone like me is to help in team fights and not feed the enemy. Doesnt mean I cant try to pick slark once in awhile and carry, just that its not likely. As far as attitude, you have no idea how always getting the ruiner can be demoralizing, you would become dour as well if you always got the guy that fed pets as the other team refused to votekick for 15 mins. trust me.
My main gripe really isnt that I dont get the amazing carry player. I tend to piss them off and they avoid me, so that is self harm on my part. My main gripe is that i ALWAYS get the one player who makes it impossible to have a fun game. If i lost an epic game to stackers that is fine. Thats playing a fun game. I am saying that never happens, because someone on my team goes 1-14 and we have no shot.
Do you understand my point? Losing to the slark carry every game wouldn't upset me if my team was competitive and we had a chance. But that never ever happens. I will invariably get the quitter. And yes ofc i noticed when ByeBye! goes 20-1 against me and carries 4 idiots and then goes 6-9 on my team and we lose. But that doesnt trigger me as much as always getting bobby and he always ruining for me.
And some players go out of their way to ruin for me. Draco has done it to me countless times.
This could all be solved so easily. Create a game mode where only accounts with 100+ games can play and default is auto balance where you must actively vote to turn it off. Things like that.
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EdteOfChaos2
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Re: ban jazzy3113 plz! Afk when CK push mid full health sitting at fountain
Alright your reply is very reasonable, so here's mine - It's easy to end a game with a good score on a team that's owning. And it's easy to do badly on a team where no one is trying. I get just as many trash feeders and soloing players as you do Jazzy, except when I get them I carry them and then they don't look like noobs anymore.
Also whether someone does well or badly isn't only dependent on their individual skill. I'll give you an example. You pick Sniper and go mid. The enemy sends Lina mid, and they have Bara/Clockwerk roaming. The moment you hit a creep on lane, Bara charges and Clock/Lina dive tower to kill you. You end up feeding 0/5 in 5 minutes. Is that really the Sniper's fault? Not really. There isn't a thing in the world they could have done to not feed. Not even the best player in the world could have won that lane. Dota is 5v5 game and when 2-3 players focus down one player, that one player will feed. And then it's up to the rest of the team to either help, or farm/take towers and carry. So when someone dies and you sit next to tower flaming them, you don't only bring down your own morale; you're not doing your job as a team player. And when the rest of the team also doesn't do their job, even the greatest DotA pro in the world will suck. It's not about luck, it's about teamplay.
Here's an actual example game: https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=12153844
In this game, I play Drow in an extremely unfavorable matchup. Axe and Clockwerk are direct counter-picks to Drow, being able to easily cancel her ultimate. Pudge guarantees a kill on Drow if a hook hits since she's so positioning dependent. Sniper usually stays out of Drow's direct range, and WW can protect an isolated target from Drow since she is 100% physical.
I have a terrible lane, since I'm laning with a very bad player (gyro/necro are both), their team constantly coordinates, ganks me and denies my farm, and I go 0/2. This is your reaction:
(15:28 / Allied) jazzy3113: i jsut cant fucking take it anymore
(15:30 / Allied) jazzy3113: !ff
(15:36 / Allied) jazzy3113: it just makes me mad
(15:45 / Allied) jazzy3113: i get no pleasure anymore
(15:52 / Allied) jazzy3113: last game u guys are fucking pros
(15:55 / Allied) jazzy3113: literal fucking pros
(16:03 / Allied) jazzy3113: this game ttoal shit for nor eason
(16:08 / Allied) jazzy3113: WTF
(16:10 / Allied) jazzy3113: IUS GOSDFKLSDL;FG
(16:11 / Allied) jazzy3113: DFGD
(16:15 / Allied) jazzy3113: FUCKING NIGGERS ON THISFSDFKSD
(16:16 / Allied) jazzy3113: FSDF
Now, while you were sitting next to a tower flaming me, Leoric who is a good player decided to do his job. Farms up tank gear and dagger for Sniper, and stops the enemies from initiating on me. Due to his play, I now get lots of farm and am able to sit behind him dealing 600 damage per second safely. If not for Leoric helping me, I probably would have ended the game as a "feeder" with a lot of deaths. Leoric did it this game, but you could have. And you chose not to.
What he did in that game wasn't due to luck or some exceptional skill. He just made an effort. And that's all I really want you to do tbh, when a teammate is dying maybe don't immediately jump to flaming them and assume you lost, and instead help out. And it's good that you went 10/1 in your last game, that is good play. Keep doing that and you won't be low elo..
Also whether someone does well or badly isn't only dependent on their individual skill. I'll give you an example. You pick Sniper and go mid. The enemy sends Lina mid, and they have Bara/Clockwerk roaming. The moment you hit a creep on lane, Bara charges and Clock/Lina dive tower to kill you. You end up feeding 0/5 in 5 minutes. Is that really the Sniper's fault? Not really. There isn't a thing in the world they could have done to not feed. Not even the best player in the world could have won that lane. Dota is 5v5 game and when 2-3 players focus down one player, that one player will feed. And then it's up to the rest of the team to either help, or farm/take towers and carry. So when someone dies and you sit next to tower flaming them, you don't only bring down your own morale; you're not doing your job as a team player. And when the rest of the team also doesn't do their job, even the greatest DotA pro in the world will suck. It's not about luck, it's about teamplay.
Here's an actual example game: https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=12153844
In this game, I play Drow in an extremely unfavorable matchup. Axe and Clockwerk are direct counter-picks to Drow, being able to easily cancel her ultimate. Pudge guarantees a kill on Drow if a hook hits since she's so positioning dependent. Sniper usually stays out of Drow's direct range, and WW can protect an isolated target from Drow since she is 100% physical.
I have a terrible lane, since I'm laning with a very bad player (gyro/necro are both), their team constantly coordinates, ganks me and denies my farm, and I go 0/2. This is your reaction:
(15:28 / Allied) jazzy3113: i jsut cant fucking take it anymore
(15:30 / Allied) jazzy3113: !ff
(15:36 / Allied) jazzy3113: it just makes me mad
(15:45 / Allied) jazzy3113: i get no pleasure anymore
(15:52 / Allied) jazzy3113: last game u guys are fucking pros
(15:55 / Allied) jazzy3113: literal fucking pros
(16:03 / Allied) jazzy3113: this game ttoal shit for nor eason
(16:08 / Allied) jazzy3113: WTF
(16:10 / Allied) jazzy3113: IUS GOSDFKLSDL;FG
(16:11 / Allied) jazzy3113: DFGD
(16:15 / Allied) jazzy3113: FUCKING NIGGERS ON THISFSDFKSD
(16:16 / Allied) jazzy3113: FSDF
Now, while you were sitting next to a tower flaming me, Leoric who is a good player decided to do his job. Farms up tank gear and dagger for Sniper, and stops the enemies from initiating on me. Due to his play, I now get lots of farm and am able to sit behind him dealing 600 damage per second safely. If not for Leoric helping me, I probably would have ended the game as a "feeder" with a lot of deaths. Leoric did it this game, but you could have. And you chose not to.
What he did in that game wasn't due to luck or some exceptional skill. He just made an effort. And that's all I really want you to do tbh, when a teammate is dying maybe don't immediately jump to flaming them and assume you lost, and instead help out. And it's good that you went 10/1 in your last game, that is good play. Keep doing that and you won't be low elo..
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- kunkka (Sat Apr 15, 2023 5:19 pm) • Thanks11 (Wed Apr 12, 2023 8:32 pm)
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Thanks11
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Re: ban jazzy3113 plz! Afk when CK push mid full health sitting at fountain
EdteOfChaos2 wrote:Alright your reply is very reasonable, so here's mine - It's easy to end a game with a good score on a team that's owning. And it's easy to do badly on a team where no one is trying. I get just as many trash feeders and soloing players as you do Jazzy, except when I get them I carry them and then they don't look like noobs anymore.
Also whether someone does well or badly isn't only dependent on their individual skill. I'll give you an example. You pick Sniper and go mid. The enemy sends Lina mid, and they have Bara/Clockwerk roaming. The moment you hit a creep on lane, Bara charges and Clock/Lina dive tower to kill you. You end up feeding 0/5 in 5 minutes. Is that really the Sniper's fault? Not really. There isn't a thing in the world they could have done to not feed. Not even the best player in the world could have won that lane. Dota is 5v5 game and when 2-3 players focus down one player, that one player will feed. And then it's up to the rest of the team to either help, or farm/take towers and carry. So when someone dies and you sit next to tower flaming them, you don't only bring down your own morale; you're not doing your job as a team player. And when the rest of the team also doesn't do their job, even the greatest DotA pro in the world will suck. It's not about luck, it's about teamplay.
Here's an actual example game: https://entgaming.net/findstats.php?id=12153844
In this game, I play Drow in an extremely unfavorable matchup. Axe and Clockwerk are direct counter-picks to Drow, being able to easily cancel her ultimate. Pudge guarantees a kill on Drow if a hook hits since she's so positioning dependent. Sniper usually stays out of Drow's direct range, and WW can protect an isolated target from Drow since she is 100% physical.
I have a terrible lane, since I'm laning with a very bad player (gyro/necro are both), their team constantly coordinates, ganks me and denies my farm, and I go 0/2. This is your reaction:
(15:28 / Allied) jazzy3113: i jsut cant fucking take it anymore
(15:30 / Allied) jazzy3113: !ff
(15:36 / Allied) jazzy3113: it just makes me mad
(15:45 / Allied) jazzy3113: i get no pleasure anymore
(15:52 / Allied) jazzy3113: last game u guys are fucking pros
(15:55 / Allied) jazzy3113: literal fucking pros
(16:03 / Allied) jazzy3113: this game ttoal shit for nor eason
(16:08 / Allied) jazzy3113: WTF
(16:10 / Allied) jazzy3113: IUS GOSDFKLSDL;FG
(16:11 / Allied) jazzy3113: DFGD
(16:15 / Allied) jazzy3113: FUCKING NIGGERS ON THISFSDFKSD
(16:16 / Allied) jazzy3113: FSDF
Now, while you were sitting next to a tower flaming me, Leoric who is a good player decided to do his job. Farms up tank gear and dagger for Sniper, and stops the enemies from initiating on me. Due to his play, I now get lots of farm and am able to sit behind him dealing 600 damage per second safely. If not for Leoric helping me, I probably would have ended the game as a "feeder" with a lot of deaths. Leoric did it this game, but you could have. And you chose not to.
What he did in that game wasn't due to luck or some exceptional skill. He just made an effort. And that's all I really want you to do tbh, when a teammate is dying maybe don't immediately jump to flaming them and assume you lost, and instead help out. And it's good that you went 10/1 in your last game, that is good play. Keep doing that and you won't be low elo..
I commend you for rationally trying to explain this to a 60 IQ racist terrible 600 ELO player like Jazzy. It's hilarious to see Jazzy trying to play the victim and cry that he's not being carried. He's just awful to team with and drags the entire team's skill level down. Lol.
and i 100% support this ban on him @astros and thank you.
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kunkka
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Re: ban jazzy3113 plz! Afk when CK push mid full health sitting at fountain
EdteOfChaos2 wrote:I have a terrible lane, since I'm laning with a very bad player (gyro/necro are both), their team constantly coordinates, ganks me and denies my farm, and I go 0/2. This is your reaction:
(15:28 / Allied) jazzy3113: i jsut cant fucking take it anymore
(15:30 / Allied) jazzy3113: !ff
(15:36 / Allied) jazzy3113: it just makes me mad
(15:45 / Allied) jazzy3113: i get no pleasure anymore
(15:52 / Allied) jazzy3113: last game u guys are fucking pros
(15:55 / Allied) jazzy3113: literal fucking pros
(16:03 / Allied) jazzy3113: this game ttoal shit for nor eason
(16:08 / Allied) jazzy3113: WTF
(16:10 / Allied) jazzy3113: IUS GOSDFKLSDL;FG
(16:11 / Allied) jazzy3113: DFGD
(16:15 / Allied) jazzy3113: FUCKING NIGGERS ON THISFSDFKSD
(16:16 / Allied) jazzy3113: FSDF
if Jazzy guy did this to me, I'd instantly stop trying. why would I try to carry a noob like that
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Astros
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Re: ban jazzy3113 plz! Afk when CK push mid full health sitting at fountain
Jazzy, I'm going to be completely honest, you should be banned for this game but I'm going to give you another chance (despite the many chances you have received).
The issue is less to do with your gameplay and more to do with your attitude. You simply quit or perceive yourself to be the victim and your gameplay begins to reflect that.
There is no vendetta or conspiracy against you. As much as Trader is disliked here, he went from being an 800 ELO player to 1300. At some point, after thousands of games, the issue isn't the other players but your own. There are times where you actually play well but then decide to give up or make excuses about how the other team only plays well against you and sucks when you are on their team. Just play the game and stop trying to make yourself a voluntary victim. No one is out to get you. It's DotA 1 in a 20 year old game. Try to put yourself in the POV of your teammates constantly having to hear you complain about how unfair it is for you to always have the 'bad' team.
Seriously, just PLAY THE GAME...
The issue is less to do with your gameplay and more to do with your attitude. You simply quit or perceive yourself to be the victim and your gameplay begins to reflect that.
There is no vendetta or conspiracy against you. As much as Trader is disliked here, he went from being an 800 ELO player to 1300. At some point, after thousands of games, the issue isn't the other players but your own. There are times where you actually play well but then decide to give up or make excuses about how the other team only plays well against you and sucks when you are on their team. Just play the game and stop trying to make yourself a voluntary victim. No one is out to get you. It's DotA 1 in a 20 year old game. Try to put yourself in the POV of your teammates constantly having to hear you complain about how unfair it is for you to always have the 'bad' team.
Seriously, just PLAY THE GAME...
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