I request 2nd opinion

Crazy_Skeleton · Postby **Crazy_Skeleton** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:34 am

Your Warcraft III username: Crazy_Skeleton
Realm/Gateway: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1200+ #55
Why are you banned: Braking a rule: If a votekick is initiated to kick a visible game ruiner, all players are obligated to !yes.
viewtopic.php?p=445237#p445237
Why you should be unbanned:

1. You are free to refuse to votekick someone when there is lack of evidence/visible rule violation. However, communicate your decision via all chat, too.
2. If you are unsure that someone on the opposite team is game ruinning, ask the other team for clarification via all chat.

Two players teal and blue voted to kick red so it is half of the team. In order to NOT brake VK rules, I used my right to communicate before kicking. Neither purple nor blue never in whole game wrote me back that red is TK on purpose. I was writing MANY times, it is all in chat.

All in all half team voted to kick red, purple did not, and no1 but teal confirmed red is TKing them. I have the right to communicate be4 vk written in ENT RULES! SO WHY I AM BANNED?!
@Kiwi
@bezdak this post is a second opinion post = I request an answer from another admin plz.

bezdak · Postby **bezdak** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:33 pm

Hello,

1. The reason you got ban is there was no lack of evidence, red himself admitted he's intentionally TKing several times, mainly here:

Spoiler!

2. Kiwi is not a mod, tagging him is pointless.

KiwiLeKiller · Postby **KiwiLeKiller** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:57 pm

On the first hand, Crazy_Skeleton might have intentionally not kicked red, but that we cannot know for sure. Not like he said that he won't kick or something. On the other hand, it was not really obvious for east team that red was actually game ruining, since they couldn't see that he wasn't building. Velzu almost waited for the votekick to expire to explain to the other team that red was game ruining! Also, none of blue or purple confirmed that red was game ruining at anytime. I do not think this ban is legit, or at least not the duration.

Spoiler!

bezdak · Postby **bezdak** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:49 pm

OK I will write down the whole review I did in this case so the second mod has it easier to judge my actions.

Here's all of the chat that proves him intentionally teamkilling:

Spoiler!

2 ppl from west voted to kick, red admitted teamkilling and nobody disagreed with what teal was saying. You still needed to confirm it from purple who wasn't even reading chat (what he said also). You were just trying to be safe using those two paragraphs from the rules, however there was no way for you to not see enough evidence from the chat and you were doing it intentionally.

As for the ban lenght:
1. viewtopic.php?t=112821 -> Subject barely came out of the ban for exact same thing. In both Discord and appeal he showed absolutely no respect for this rule.
2. viewtopic.php?f=24&t=113533 -> ban request couldn't be reviewed but again, he showed no respect for this rule.
3. after denying the above BRQ, he sent me this on Discord:

Spoiler!

Again, showing no respect for the votekicking rule.

I'm forwarding this case on Discord so you might get a faster second opinion.

Velz · Postby **Velz** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:03 pm

I just want to add a little defence speech to what Kiwi said. He mentioned that I didn't clarify reds violations in chat until the last seconds of the first votekick started by blue. While I didn't know the timer for it, this seems legit as it was 6 seconds between my 3rd message and the first votekick expiration. However, there was a timelapse of roughly 5 1/2 minutes between the first and the second votekick. Plenty of time to analyze the situation, given arena score visibility and given that all the necessary info was already said in chat during that time from both me, the violator himself, and purple confirming yellows questioning. I will quote the most important chat for proving his violations in the spoiler below. I already warned them multiple times and they were perfectly aware that what they were doing was wrong. Seeing as it's the second offence in a short time for yellow, I think he will think twice before doing it again with a few days on the sideline. Although I have no say in this, I think it's a very fair decision from Bezdak.

Spoiler!

Crazy_Skeleton · Postby **Crazy_Skeleton** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:41 pm

Plz delate Velz bullshiting, it is not a section for him to write here. This post is strictly made for 2nd opinion of admin, what is written in the topic. i did not make a spam section for players here.

Postby **halo_mauler** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:48 pm

Red should have been voted kicked at this point in the game:
(14:35 / All) Trebor: i wont send tho
You are obligated to !votekick any player that has broken any of ENT's rules. If someone or several indicate that a particular player is game ruining, you, as a player in the game, are obligated to question/check about the situation/claim.
(27:04 / All) Trebor: they have to ban me
(27:10 / All) Trebor: its the correct thing
I agree with these bans
ENT's vision while banning players is not to keep you banned for the most time possible, but to ensure the said player learns that violating rules have consequences (aka ban), and that he will do his best to ensure it doens't happen again

Crazy_Skeleton · Postby **Crazy_Skeleton** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:54 pm

I want to repeat that none but teal confirmed that red is a tk. Neither blue nor purple.Writing that purple did not read chat is 0 argument for me. Blue also did not read chat or what?

Also purple dod not vote to kick red. Due to YOUR ENT RULES I can ensure myself before kicking, and only 1 player told us to kick his teammate. Purple and blue did not ask us to kick red.

U have to consider also that not kicking red DID NOT give us any advantage since it was red's send on lvl 15 that killed us. Teal missed the send! We would have benefit if we kicked red but we denied it!

I will NEVER VK a player when only 1 player ask me to. NEVER. Even if this ban passes. So u can prolong it to whole life if u like or read UR ENT RULES 1st!

Crazy_Skeleton · Postby **Crazy_Skeleton** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:59 pm

I still aw8 2nd opinion for my ban.

Postby **halo_mauler** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:12 pm

Red made you aware of his intentions
His teammates started the vote
You refused

Crazy_Skeleton · Postby **Crazy_Skeleton** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:31 pm

1. Red did act Against his intensions killing us=sending lvl 15 (teal did not send dispite his intentions)
Plz do not focus on intensions, keep on rules of ENT about vk. U can write in chat w/e U want it is not a purpose to vk die to current ENT rules.

2. One teammate strated to vk, he was not supported by his team.

Postby **halo_mauler** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:43 pm

(14:35 / All) Trebor: i wont send tho
at this point any vote kick against red should have passed regardless of the outcome

Crazy_Skeleton · Postby **Crazy_Skeleton** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:49 pm

Due to what rule my friend? Please be specific.

Postby **Merex** » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:58 pm

Nevertheless, I'll be a 3rd moderator jumping in on this case.

I've taken a look at the ban request, the replay, the chatlog and this appeal specifically.

First off, I feel like you're actually not that well-connected with the rules of ENT. I won't have you trying to bend them in your favor. A votekick started from blue and teal even pushed on it stating clearly why. That's 2 people already confirming, on top of all of the chatter red has been givng. It's common sense and to argue it the other way is just silly.

Second off, I don't know what issues you have with this teal but his wording is no less of value than another in this matter. If he told you that red was violating and red's responses are:
(22:43 / All) Trebor: haha
(26:45 / All) Trebor: its all good boys
(27:04 / All) Trebor: they have to ban me
It should just be common sense.

The second votekick was during/shortly after the arena from where you were perfectly able to see the TK with your own eyes. This is LTD 1200+, there is no 11 income/600 value even for a suicider, especially if 2+ of his teammates are initiating votekicks and telling you he's tk'ing. Having him vocalize his intentions made this a clear cut case and you blatantly refused to abide by our votekick rules.

That being said, given how hostile and argumentative you're being, the ban is going to stay for now and let you reflect on your actions. The ban was issued today and is lasted for 5 days, you may re-appeal in 2 days (the 13th) and we can go from there. If you make an appeal right after this one, it'll just be denied. Please take this time to settle down and correct your story.

I request 2nd opinion

I request 2nd opinion

Re: I request 2nd opinion

Re: I request 2nd opinion

Re: I request 2nd opinion

Re: I request 2nd opinion

Re: I request 2nd opinion

Re: I request 2nd opinion

Re: I request 2nd opinion

Re: I request 2nd opinion

Re: I request 2nd opinion

Re: I request 2nd opinion

Re: I request 2nd opinion

Re: I request 2nd opinion

Re: I request 2nd opinion

Who is online