False accusation of not vote kicking DOTA

[peterpanpark]

Your Warcraft III username: Peterpanpark.
Realm/Gateway: uswest
Why are you banned: false accusation of not vote kicking a supposed game thrower
Why you should be unbanned:

viewtopic.php?f=24&p=445904#p445904

In this post Frenchdotaplayy accuses me and others that we refused to kick a supposed game thrower because he afked.
"
(35:07 / Allied) frenchdotaplayy: !votekick hoogi
(35:07 / All) iamdumb: A votekick against player [Hoogies] has been started by player [frenchdotaplayy]. 6 votes are needed within 60 seconds to pass.
(35:10 / All) frenchdotaplayy: afk > 5 min
(35:35 / All) frenchdotaplayy: not kicking will restult in a ban)

"
Slark was only afk for only 2 minutes at this time frenchdotaplayy wrote this and there is no rule suggesting that 2min's of afk is not game throwing nor was he necessarily feeding throughout the game (his score was 8-7-8).

Sure enough he did come back and play til the very end around 38-40-min mark and he played til the end

"(36:07 / Allied) Hoogies: no
(36:09 / Allied) Hoogies: dontkick
(36:14 / Allied) Hoogies: whathappen"

he did came back and he was playing with his team til the end (he did not even go near the 5 min mark for his team to auto kick him for afk)

The reason why hes accusing us is becauuse he is now 15-1 and we gave him his first loss and obviously bitter about it

No reason for ban so please un ban thanks

[Quentin]

He was afk previously on the game on numerous events for more than 3 minutes.
You had enough time to notice that he was repeatedly afk.
I told you the reason in all chat.
I told you that you were going to be banned if you refused to kick him.
You never stated in all chat any reasons for not kicking.

As far as I am concerned this appeal is denied.

[peterpanpark]

Wrong

we all typed -afk and he was afked for less than 2 min...

Please refer to where in the rules suggest that 2min afk results in game throwing for a slark that was 8-9??

[Quentin]

Watch the replay, he has been afk several times previously for a total time of approximatively 10 min.
If he was afk for more than 5 min, we would not have needed you to kick him, we could have kicked him ourselves.
Anyway, I have denied this appeal (see above for the reason) and considering that I am the mod that banned you in the first place, you can only be unbanned if 2 other differents mods disagree with my judgement.

[peterpanpark]

again u are wrong and just simply making things up..

This is what happened after u typed ur false accusation of slark who u thought was afk

(35:10 / All) frenchdotaplayy: afk > 5 min
(35:14 / Allied) flamingboomer: -afk
(35:17 / Allied) PETERPANPARk.: -afk
(35:20 / Allied) triple: -afk

3 of us, including me typed afk..
Guess what happened?
showed slark was afk for less than 2minutes. this is more than enough evidence that he was neither throwing or afking

So again, where does it say in the rules that 2min afk is game throwing especially for a slark who is 8-9 ?

The only reason i can think of is that you as a mod is obviosuly bitter that i am a better player than u and you are clearly abusing ur power here...

Show where in the rules that <2min afk is gamethrowing

[peterpanpark]

@died is obviously ignoring and/or failing to respond to the central premise of his accusation directed towards me - whether less than 2min afk is game throwing, especially when this occurred at a time where no major team fight or battle took place.

http://wiki.entgaming.net/index.php?title=Home

i re-read the rules and there is nothing that suggests that less than 2min afk is game throwing for a slark who is 8-9-8 and the accusation was made where no major battle/fight or game-changing battle/fight occurred.

Out of respect to ent, i will wait patiently for 12 hrs for a clear response. If not i will be posting a official complaint against @died for abuse of power over a game he lost to superior players which resulted in him banning me out of his own self-anger. This is clear victim-hood/blame-game mentality so hes trying to blame it on me.

Thank you for your time

[Slomosapien]

He was afk previously on the game on numerous events for more than 3 minutes.
You had enough time to notice that he was repeatedly afk.
I told you the reason in all chat.

Lots of people make up reasons when trying to votekick. If it's not a very blantant reason (visible item destruction, intentional deaths), then it's hard to take someones word.

Noticing someone being afk is not obvious. They could be in jungle or warding. Either of those things could take more than a couple minutes. I dont type -afk someones not visible.

[peterpanpark]

Yup exactly. @DieD claims that he was afk for more than 10min during that whole game apparently lol...

All i know from the opponents perspective (since i was vs'ing him) is that when he claimed that slark was afk >5min, within 10 seconds 3 people on my team (including me) tpyed -afk to see if this was true.
Turns out that slark was only afk for less than 2min..a total lie by the mod. In which slark eventually returned playing without any noticeable throwing like item destruction or intentional feed and then gradually lost the game..

the only reason to explain this ban is that @died who is the mod here at ent is abusing his power because he is so butthurt that me and my team ruined his perfect 15-0 record as it is now 15-1.

[Slomosapien]

It's probably not a lie. He may very well have been afk that much. The point is that it's hard to tell from the opposing teams perspective.

holy shit. i just noticed that he banned almost everyone in that game.

@DieD even your own team wasnt votekicking.

[peterpanpark]

Your point is exactly the point im making which is the opposing team's perspective..

I as his opponent only saw
-no intentional feeding (slark was 8-9)

-no item destruction

-slark being accused of afk and within 10 sec, i typed -afk and my screen showed slark was afk for less than 2min

-no major team battle/fight or gamechanging battle/fight during this period

-slark eventually returned and played normally

-Me and my team won the game

and it looks like as you pointed out that no one else co-operated with his votekick, not even his own team. Which highlights the 2nd part of my argument that @dieD is clearly abusing his power over a sour loss. Connect the dots and this ban makes no sense other than a butt hurt mod who is trying to flex his muscles...

[Quentin]

Hello,

First of all, thanks for your inputs but please cut the spam.

I watched the replay again and here are all the timestamps (game time):
from 24:00 to 25:00 => slark afk base moving at foutain
from 28:40 to 30:30 => slark afk foutain (bara and necro died alone during a teamfight 2v5 around min 30)
from 30:50 to 32:xx+ => slark afk foutain again

By this time it was strictly more than 5 min afk total time. You had more than enough time to notice that he was not playing. You were pushing bot raxes, and he was not defending, which was even another game ruining reason (refusing to defend). We were winning the early game and we lost several timefights. Votekick lasted 1 min. He never came back during the entire votekick timer. It was more than 6 min total time. You noticed that you were pushing base while the votekick and that he did not show up again. Still, you did not kick at the end of the timer ...

=> It was a clear game ruiner (afk).
=> You had enough time to notice it on the opposite team.
=> You refused to kick him to win the game unfairly.
=> The afk lasted for more than 20 % of the game time, you cannot miss than someone is afk for 20 % of the game!
=> Even if you indeed did not notice that he was afk for so long, you HAD TO notify it in all chat, and I would have proven it to you in all chat
=> You did not say anything in all chat
=> I warned you that not kicking will result in a ban after ~ 30 second in the votekick
=> I told the reason in all chat
=> Anyways, he was afk when you were pushing raxes bottom (critical time of the game) and missed several previous teamfights that were enough to kick even if he was not afk for 5-10 min ...
=> This ban is crystal clear!

Your arguments are total non-sense! When someone is afk game ruining, it is not about typing -afk and checking if he is afk for more than 5 min... Otherwise the opponent team would not have required your vote to kick him but just writing "!kickafk XX". The point is to check if he was afk or not: as you told it, you knew that he was for several minutes. Then, determine if it was an important game time or not (it definitely was because you were pushing bottom raxes) and then check a few seconds in order to see if he comes back: he did not!

You are free to do whatever you want, you can complaint about me if you want, but it will not change ENT rules.
I will quote the rules for you:

Slark ruined the game on purpose:

Do not ruin the game on purpose:
Do not go away from keyboard for an excessive amount of time, especially without telling other players beforehand, and/or refuse to play the game in an attempt to ruin it. Neither are you allowed to grief by resetting the afk timer.

You refused to kick him in order to win the game, which was in your disandvantage at the beginning:

Code: Select all

If a votekick is initiated to kick a visible game ruiner, all players are obligated to !yes.

Rules are crystal clear if you do not think that he was ruining on purpose:

If you are unsure that someone on the opposite team is game ruinning, ask the other team for clarification via all chat.

You DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ON ALL CHAT.
You DID NOT VOTED TO KICK HIM.
You got banned.
End of story.

I know that sometimes it is hard to tell if someone is throwing on purpose or not, but in this game, there is absolutely no excuses. Reason was stating in all chat, you could not have missed it because he throwed 20 % of the game afk fountain and you did not ask for clarification. And even if he stayed afk again for the entire votekick time (1 minute), you did not kick him at the end of the timer.


@Slomosapien: Yes, you are totally right. In games, it is difficult to determine exactly if someone is ruining on purpose or not if you are in the opposite team. The main reason is because most users do not state votekick reason in all chat and you are unsure if they are just bad or not...
In this game, it was not the case, I stated the reason in all chat, and they could not have genuinely missed it. And even if they did, the rules are well written: if you do not know that he is ruining on purpose, you must explain it in all chat and ask for clarification. If the reasons are not valid to kick someone, you should explain it in all chat and do not vote yes. If the reasons are valid to kick, you can give them the benefits of the doubt. Especially if most users in the team vote.
When the game ruining is hard to tell, I only ban the game ruiner and not the players that did not vote.
In any case, I never ban someone who say in all chat why he do not vote (if it is legit, and not because "he wants an unfair advantage to win the game").

2 out of 3 people in our team voted. Which is 66 % of the players. Mortred did not vote and got banned aswell for the same reasons.

[Slomosapien]

@DieD the afk times you're providing don't add up to even close to the 10 minutes you had claimed.

24-25 he was waiting on gold for item. perfectly reasonable and doesnt really qualify as afk.

28:40-30:20 legit afk (1:40 total) then immediately joins defence. bara and necro did not die alone. slark had been part of the fight right before that.

30:55-33:45 again afk (4:30 total) again immediately joins defence. base wasnt pushed before this point. note here that you told everyone he had been afk for >5 minutes and they would be banned, which was false representation and undue intimidation on your part.

no other afks. participates in all base defence. participates in all major team fights.

really need someone else to review this obviously.

@[G-Dragon] @Falenga @Jabba41 @bezdak @Hash @CheW

[peterpanpark]

sigh........ do you not even read the appeal?

Since obviously you just dont get it. I'll have to break this down for you............

I watched the replay again and here are all the timestamps (game time):
from 24:00 to 25:00 => slark afk base moving at foutain
from 28:40 to 30:30 => slark afk foutain (bara and necro died alone during a teamfight 2v5 around min 30)
from 30:50 to 32:xx+ => slark afk foutain again

By this time it was strictly more than 5 min afk total time. You had even time to notice that he was not playing. We were winning the early game and we lost several timefights. Votekick lasted 1 min. He never came back during the entire votekick timer. It was more than 6 min. You noticed that you were pushing base while the votekick and that he did not show up again. Still, you did not kick at the end of the timer ...

Do you not understand different perspectives ?
How can I or any of one of my team members know that slark was at fountain during those timestamps? Am i supposed to keep a timer everytime i dont see any opponent? is this what you do every game?

As i said multiple times now, i can only go from what i see on my screen and you typed at

(35:10 / All) frenchdotaplayy: afk > 5 min

how am i supposed to know? do you trust strangers everytime they try to votekick someone saying that some guy is afk?

So what will be the responsible and reasonable action to take at this point?
For me, that is to to type -afk to see whether you what you are claiming is true or not.(i'm sure even you can agree with me here)

And what did -afk show on my screen?
slark is afk for LESS THAN 2 MINUTES!

let me just repeat that for you...
YOU claimed
(35:10 / All) frenchdotaplayy: afk > 5 min
my screen shows LESS THAN 2 min

So at this point, what obligation or responsibility do i have that is consistent to ent rules that i must now provide a counter-argument to you in ALL-chat just to prove you wrong that slark is afk for only less than 2 minutes and not "(35:10 / All) frenchdotaplayy: afk > 5 min " that you are claiming?

Rules never say anything like that buddy.

And no, you werent winning the early game (stop trying to spin it). We always had more towers pushed and simply co-operated as a team much better than you, THIS IS WHY YOU LOST AND YOUR SIMPLY BUTTHURT.

=> It was a clear game ruiner (afk).
=> You had enough time to notice it on the opposite team.
=> You refused to kick him to win the game unfairly.
=> The afk lasted for more than 20 % of the game time, you cannot miss than someone is afk for 20 % of the game!
=> Even if you indeed did not notice that he was afk for so long, you HAD TO notify it in all chat, and I would have proven it to you in all chat
=> You did not say anything in all chat
=> I warned you that not kicking will result in a ban after ~ 30 second in the votekick
=> I told the reason in all chat
=> This ban is crystal clear!

Actually after reading the chat, it turns out that EVEN YOU TYPED -AFK before you tried to kick him

(35:04 / Allied) frenchdotaplayy: -afk
(35:07 / Allied) frenchdotaplayy: !votekick hoogi

so you would've seen on your screen that slark was afk for LESS than 2minutes even though you claimed afterwards that

(35:10 / All) frenchdotaplayy: afk > 5 min

So tell me, is the responsibility up to me or you whether to know slark was afk for more than 5min as you claimed.
Even if all your timestamps and descriptions about slark was true, that he was afk for more than 10 min. Is it my responsibility or yours to prove that?

Did you prove that in the chat?
No you didnt, all you did was threaten everyone that if they dont vote that you will report us to ent. You never said anything in chat that slark was afking for more than 10 minutes here n there throughout the game and NO ONE EVEN IN YOUR OWN TEAM SUPPORTED THIS CLAIM AGAINST SLARK.

Your team never supported you because it was YOU who asked them to kick
(35:25 / Allied) frenchdotaplayy: kick him

I'm sorry ur argument is pretty pathetic lol

Slark ruined the game on purpose:
Do not ruin the game on purpose:
Do not go away from keyboard for an excessive amount of time, especially without telling other players beforehand, and/or refuse to play the game in an attempt to ruin it. Neither are you allowed to grief by resetting the afk timer.

Slark never showed intentional feeding, item destruction or afking as SHOWN BY TYPING -afk so no this rule does not apply

You refused to kick him in order to win the game, which was in your disandvantage at the beginning:

Code: Select all

If a votekick is initiated to kick a visible game ruiner, all players are obligated to !yes.

Stop making stuff up.

You were never winning the game at any stage. sure maybe in the early parts of the game you had a few kills but in no way my team was under any threat or any pressure or any fear that we were going to lose lol stop lying..

Rules are crystal clear if you do not think that he was ruining on purpose:

If you are unsure that someone on the opposite team is game ruinning, ask the other team for clarification via all chat.

You DID NOT SAY ANYTHING ON ALL CHAT.
You DID NOT VOTED TO KICK HIM.
You got banned.
End of story.

This rule is irrelevant because i TYPED -AFK to see whether your claim was true (And it wasnt). I was never "unsure that someone on the opposite team is game ruinning " BECAUSE I KNEW SLARK WAS NOT AFK FOR MORE THAN 5 MIN and he eventually came back during the game

This is what you dont get..


And guess what else i found in the chat log?

EVEN YOUR OWN TEAM DISAGREES ON WHETHER HOW LONG SLARK WAS AFK

Slark and Barra says 3min and you're the only one claiming 10min and pa has no response

here is the evidence


(36:42 / Allied) iamdumb: you afk man
(36:48 / Allied) Hoogies: for3mins?
(36:55 / Allied) frenchdotaplayy: 10 min afk
--
(38:30 / Allied) iamdumb: afk for 3 mins and the whole game changed
(38:31 / Allied) iamdumb: lol
(38:38 / Allied) Hoogies: no
(38:39 / Allied) Hoogies: logan
(38:40 / Allied) Hoogies: wasour
(38:41 / Allied) frenchdotaplayy: he was afk for more than 3 min

there you go - its on YOU, not me to show that slark was afk for 10min+
I did everything a reasonable player would do by
- typing afk (and it showed <2min)
-no intentional feed
-no item destruction

Perfectly clear to any observer that i am 100% innocent.
This ban is totally unfounded and i should be unbanned immediately.

[peterpanpark]

@beerlord could you please review this. This mod @DieD really is pathetic in his argument and i deserve to be unbanned immediately.

[IWinIfyoulose]

I also looked replay. to say it's a clear game ruin, no.
- Enough time when you playing and focus on game, to notice 2-2-2 afks, no 6/43:25 isnt 20%
- IF you want someone banned you tell they didnt vote because they wanted to win (when they might not want to kick someone that not ruin for sure, your team didnt vote)
-

"24-25 he was waiting on gold for item. perfectly reasonable and doesnt really qualify as afk". Agree.

"(35:04 / Allied) frenchdotaplayy: -afk
(35:07 / Allied) frenchdotaplayy: !votekick hoogi"
1 votekick started? @beerlord so 1votekick enough to get people banned now? You always use to say that its not enough.

(36:55 / Allied) frenchdotaplayy: 10 min afk, looks like you not knew the afk time yourself.

"holy shit. i just noticed that he banned almost everyone in that game.

@DieD even your own team wasnt votekicking."

If not even your own team votekicking, its really hard for the opposite team to votekick. I have to agree with the others.
Im just happy I wasnt in that game because then I would have been banned also, LOL.

Na, this feels abusive, and much rage behinde, for first loss. Hope this end, he care to much about winning the game, letting the feelings take over.