questionable FF Abuse

[durzo_blint]

Your Warcraft III username: Durzo_blint
Realm/Gateway: ENTConnect
Why are you banned: FF Abuse
Why you should be unbanned: Lets make this very clear, if i had ANY idea resigning a game, that i concidered to be a lost one, is banable i'd never have done it obviously. And i dont really get it, we were so far behind and team communication was clearly an issue too.
Clearly you have missunderstood the intention of resigning there, game was lost. You dont play every chess game till checkmate, you lose your queen in the opening - you lose.

• To !ff the game must evidently be lost.

It was lost. It's not like, i spammed !ff. I saw the our !ff votes came in, and i thought they were reasonable. Even if you disagree on that, banning me for 5 days for someone who has not a

Is 5 days a long ban? Yes. That said, you have an extensive ban history, and this is a form of game ruining which is a serious offense.

seems kinda harsh too me.

So where is your

Ironically, your claims that I am "biased" are interesting since I am known to be very objective and have been doing this for years

objectiveness, in that regard?

i think this ban is way out of proportion


edit:
finished an unfinished sentences
to make it clear where the quotes come from: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=141143

[kasper699]

1st offence ffabuse is 5 days.

[durzo_blint]

if 1st offence is 5 days ban, then why @AmnoN said that 5 days is quiet long, and i dont understand the argument "you have an extensive ban history".
Because if 1st offence is 5 days, then neither its long nor plays the extensive ban history any role in the decision making.

Plus, it was not abusive at all. And it wasn't a rage FF.

http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 705510.w3g

i did not rage
yellow, oj and green spammed the chat and normal communication was not possible anymore.
oj ignored ylw and there was no chance this game would end on a positive note + we would lose atleast 3 heals 7, this game was over. Prolong this game would be just a suffer. I did not !ff out of rage or to piss someone off. This game was by any definition lost, and i think i'm allowed to resign a game when i honestly think, its lost.

[vinh]

i mean why ff!! y i got ff abus too but didnt report,
u noobs need 2 learn even they hight val or inc u can still win if they taken call u can win back !!!and i hate ff pple lol but gl for ur unban

[gurjop]

So make !ff a 4/4 vote. Worst case scenario: you have to play a game that you signed up for till the end. Shouldn't be the end of the world for anyone since the game should end soon anyways if you "have lost for sure".

[AmnoN]

@durzo_blint Most bans are 2-3 days, so it is a relatively high figure and is a game-ruining type offense. Also, please do not try to lift context from a different player's appeal since they may be in a different situation (e.g. history).

Please read the rules - this particular one is very clear. Is there a reason that you could not have waited until seeing how many heals exactly were lost? Is losing 3 heals on 7 a guaranteed loss? My perspective is that both answers are "no".

[durzo_blint]

@AmnoN
since he got exactly the same ban duration as i did, and you emphasized on his history. It seemed to me that was a additional reason to give a 5 days ban. Naturally i question why i have the same duration. So no, there was no context lifting + they cant be any reasonable diffrence since we got exactly the same ban.

Of course i could have waited and see if we lose not 3 but 4 heals on 7. But you cant tell me that the % Win when you are 3 heals down are double digits. But it really doesnt matter, what matters is that you think i resigned out of rage, or to ruin the game. This is simply NOT true.
I have read the rules, and this is indeed very clear on this. But may i ask you, why you think i !ff out of rage or to game ruin? Can you point to ANYTHING of this game, that tells you "this dude rage !ffed"

[Astros]

@durzo_blint

I think AmnoN was speaking in general. You guys essentially "raged" !ff because the game wasn't going your way and you guys opted to quit instead of taking a logical approach in letting the game proceed a bit longer. It is !ff abuse because regardless of whether the majority supports an !ff or not, it doesn't change the fact that the game isn't over. Having not used a single heal, it's safe to say you guys just wanted to get out of the game ASAP. If I am losing a game, the last thing I would do is !ff before a heal was even used. Simply put, it was premature. I believe Amnon was simply responding to that individual in his request to have the ban duration reduced. The way the ban system works is if you commit an offense numerous times, you get banned progressively. Considering it was also Shambles. first time abusing !ff, he was banned five days. I can't speak for him fully but I don't see anything wrong with a five-day ban so you continuing to mention it is moot.

Here is the basis: You are banned appropriately. A player lost a game and couldn't play it through because his teammates !ff'd due to not wanting to play anymore or "thinking" they had lost when the game was far from over. Your reasoning as to Amnon saying you raged is probably a general response as to the overall attitude of your teammates in also typing !ff. Amnon mentioned Shambles. history but that is irrelevant as to the duration of your ban because five days is an appropriate ban duration for !ff abuse.

[Astros]

So make !ff a 4/4 vote. Worst case scenario: you have to play a game that you signed up for till the end. Shouldn't be the end of the world for anyone since the game should end soon anyways if you "have lost for sure".

You can add it to suggestions but requiring 100% vote would make it nearly impossible if you have just one individual who is stubborn and just wants to prolong the game. Having a 3/4th majority is more than fair but it is always up to the players to understand when to !ff and when not to. Trying to get out of the game because it isn't going your way despite the game itself not being decided yet is indicative of !ff abuse.

[durzo_blint]

@Astros
@AmnoN

you guys confuse abuse with a honest mistake in reading the gamestate. And you are writing your text as we were a 3man team + the other dude. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Ban is accepted anyway

can be closed

[Astros]

@Astros
@AmnoN

you guys confuse abuse with a honest mistake in reading the gamestate. And you are writing your text as we were a 3man team + the other dude. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Ban is accepted anyway

can be closed

If I make a mistake in thinking the light is green but it is red and I run through a grandma, should I not go to jail because it was a mistake? I don't think you understand how it works. You can admit it is a mistake and learn from it so we can try to reduce your ban. But continuing to avoid that subject doesn't help anyone so if that is how you would like to proceed, then so be it.

[durzo_blint]

i get your point, even tho the analogy with the grandma is kinda excessive.
I just said it was a honest mistake, not only it was a mistake in assessing the gamestate, i also violated a rule. That is why i said ban is accepted. My hole problem was more the "why" you think i have done it. And if the next time the same situation arrives, i'll wait and see if my assessment matches with reality and then come to a conclusion to !ff or to keep playing.

[AmnoN]

I will close this appeal unless you are prepared to do the following:
1) Read the general and game-specific rules and copy and paste the rule that you broke below
2) Explain what you will do differently next time and going forward

@durzo_blint

[durzo_blint]

• Do not abuse votekick, !draw, or !ff.
- To !ff the game must evidently be lost.

next time i find myself in a similiar situation, i'll wait and see if my assassment of the situation is matching the reality. In other words, i'll wait till the dust clears and i have facts to work with e.g. heal numbers, income and value.

@AmnoM

[gloom]

I really don't get why the ff command is 3/4, if by using it you can get banned for 5 (!) days.

You can add it to suggestions but requiring 100% vote would make it nearly impossible if you have just one individual who is stubborn and just wants to prolong the game.

What would be the situation when ff vote is appropriate, and the 3 guys who ff'd would avoid ban, besides leaking 80 golems to king (in which case by ffing you save 10 seconds, so it's kinda useless anyway)? I think in any other situation you can say "it's still winnable, what if the whole enemy team falls asleep".