DotA AP Games [Update: EM is back]

[aRt)Y]

@buldozer Well, get your 20-25 friends to vote then. :P entqo.com/VoteDotA

[jfaller1]

@alop12345 pretty sure you can catch up in non em as long as youre somewhat decent at dota. maybe you should try the bk or void bots

[bansheex]

I still need to play AP to get a real sense of the differences... but according to what people are saying, gold gain is more "results-based" in non-em. If that's true, then the argument could be made that AP is the worst mode for bots because it will empower stacking even more than it did before. Without that bonus gold to keep terrible players afloat, the game will become unwinnable for one side much earlier. And is that going to be more fun? I'm not so sure it will.

[ForsakeMe]

Well, i stayed neutral. But gotta say few words. AP is good for equal teams, and when we gonna support each other( picking support heroes,getting a chick,wards) But usually happens, 5 carries in the team. Someone is farming jungle, someone line, and you getting stomped, even if you will hard support them. And none have fun when you have 0 chance to comeback. EM is mod more suited for fun, i think thats why ppl chossing it. Anyways, im not playing much tho. But i guess i could explain what majority is trying to say here. With all due respect im for keeping acitivy on ENT(which means im for keep hosting apem and ap like it was before.)

[Sillmarillion]

My first thoughts:
1. It takes forever now for a game to start and people stack even more, at least that's my impression. And because of that many people leave during the countdown and then they join again, leave ad infinitum.
2. I agree that non-em is the better and more balanced mode, but only if you implement some leagues according to the skill level of the players and make a matchmaking system to avoid stacking. I played dotaleague, dotapickup and dotalicious and they all had this. That's why there were a success.

[SuckIt69]

Now ENT is forcing me to play AP when i have played over 3500 games only arem?
this is ridicilous, forreal if u loose arem, u will loose players.

[Sillmarillion]

Wow, the quality of the games has decreased so much! Most of the games now feature leavers/afkers which is compromises a non em game much more than a easy mode game. You have to bring in some skill-level based leagues or this bot is going down.

[jfaller1]

You guys are actually embarrassing its too funny

[alopp12345]

Yea I haven't played a single -ap game in the last 2 days that was even close. I usually killed 5 people in first 10 minutes and their team quits.... fun stuff. I've started playing -em again on void and game is much more enjoyable. AP is just stupid for kids that think they're good at the game but can't hack it in Dota2.

[bansheex]

Yeah, I've played some AP and my fears about it are true. The whole "people will be forced to play like pros" thing doesnt pan out. Noobs/laggers don't magically become better players who stop lagging and buy correctly and coordinate properly. What happens is that their effect on the game is magnified. Without the gold boost of em, their feeding becomes uncontrollable as the opposing team consta pushes for that snowball inducing disparity. In an EM game, the feeder will eventually get enough natural gold to buy an item that will help them stop feeding or stay relevant somehow. But it just never happens in AP, death after death leaves them utterly helpless and more and more likely to die again.

In other words, non-em is a very unforgiving mode. And that makes it a poor mode for bot play when equal teams are difficult to achieve. Because guess what, there are a LOT of below average or downright terrible players. And if there's no way to overcome them by staying away from them to farm and lane harass instead of dying with/for them, then the game is unwinnable and thus, unfun.

So you were looking for reasons to keep EM? There it is, plain and simple. I've played dota for as long as it's been around.

[EdgeOfChaos]

I think "non-forgiving" is certainly the best description for non-EM. I just played a game where a player completed his first item - vanguard - at 38 minutes, which while amusing is also hard to handle when you're on that team. This doesn't happen in EM because the gold income and shorter respawn times are almost always enough to farm you a "big" item by 30 minutes, even if you die over and over.

[TheDemonYong.]

It's obviously more "fun" to own newbies (as carries) or intelligence heroes which have no defense whatsoever. But that's not really newbie friendly - however, being friendly to newbies and creating a good gaming experience is the core of ENT's services.

I will repeat myself again: I see no reason why easy mode should exist except for the very weak argument of the time investment which has been invalidated by the global average of ap and apem games on ENT.

@Krkljator_CF While this is off-topic, I highly doubt your "maphacking rate" is "non-existing". Either your community is rather small (with range bans not affecting many players) or the detection/ban range isn't sufficient enough. We've enough experience judging these things but that's beside the point. What you already stated correctly, your average skill level might be higher and that's what we are aiming for as well.

@Madeofmetal Your argument makes no sense. This isn't about "Blizzard" but about IceFrog being newbie friendly what he dropped years ago. Only because he added a simple -em mode, doesn't mean he intended to keep it alive. All about IceFrog cares/cared is the competitive scene as that's what DotA actually keeps alive. Take Dota 2 as an example for that matter. He is the lead designer of the game but do you see them adding an easy mode? I guess not. It works there and again, I dont see a reason why players can't adjust to ap as well. The arguments of choice and time are simply too "easy" and have no value.

Anyway, it's a test and we will see.

If u really wanna pickup quality of games, why theres no autobalance bot? Most games are stacked hard. Thank you for answer Mister.

[Gungir]

Or host both, let people decide which they want to play. Just because you play non-em doesn't mean everyone else should have to. Leave it a choice, just because people who play non-em have to wait, that's their choice, obviously if they aren't filling up quick, people don't want to play it, why make them suffer just so you don't have to wait?

[aRt)Y]

There's more to that than simply arguing about the wating time. You would know if you read the first post.

[Snufalufagus]

There are many players who prefer -em games to non -em. If someone wants to play non -em, more power to them, but why force the entire community to play non -em. I will undoubtedly stop playing DotA if the only version is regular, and there are multitudes of players who feel the same way. Why try to fix something that isn't broken? There are some people who are arguing that DotA is made to be played non -em, and to just accept it. NO, DotA can be played however one enjoys playing it, please stop trying to impose your ways onto others. ENT, please continue to host -em games!