General Discussions

[FateStayNight]

Here you can talk or ask about everything that is related to LTL!

[Meshtar]

Well, ok then I will be the first

Since the posted rules aren't completely clear on that account, I would like to know is there a set numbers of players in team who must come from lihl and set number of players who must come from 1200+ etc? If I read the rules correctly, it says that only one out of 5-6 team members has to be from 1200+ so that theoretically means 5 possible lihl players in team? Doesn't that kinda defeat the whole point of mixing lihl and 1200+? I don't want to be negative, since I think this idea really is great in general, but if thats how rules stand I suppose most of the lihlers will stick to their mates and you will have most of the teams who are either 80% lihl or 100% 1200+ with some random teams from mega and most of the teams will end up as canon fodder. There is currently not more than 5-10 1200+ players (if even that many) who can play, lets say, close to the lihl level. Plenty of average or decent players, but players who , if they are to form their own team, don't stand a chance to achieve wins against anyone but teams of similar quality players or megas.

Either way I would appreciate it if you could clarify some of these points to me.

Peace,
Meshtar

edit:

Two of the teams that signed up already proved my point

[KiwiLeKiller]

Well, ok then I will be the first

Since the posted rules aren't completely clear on that account, I would like to know is there a set numbers of players in team who must come from lihl and set number of players who must come from 1200+ etc? If I read the rules correctly, it says that only one out of 5-6 team members has to be from 1200+ so that theoretically means 5 possible lihl players in team? Doesn't that kinda defeat the whole point of mixing lihl and 1200+? I don't want to be negative, since I think this idea really is great in general, but if thats how rules stand I suppose most of the lihlers will stick to their mates and you will have most of the teams who are either 80% lihl or 100% 1200+ with some random teams from mega and most of the teams will end up as canon fodder. There is currently not more than 5-10 1200+ players (if even that many) who can play, lets say, close to the lihl level. Plenty of average or decent players, but players who , if they are to form their own team, don't stand a chance to achieve wins against anyone but teams of similar quality players or megas.

Either way I would appreciate it if you could clarify some of these points to me.

Peace,
Meshtar

edit:

Two of the teams that signed up already proved my point

I think you are right. We thought of it at first and we figured out that teams will be most likely unbalanced. However, it is important to acknowledge that this is the very first season of LTL and that we have to explore the limits of what is possible with the amount of players that we can get. Also, we think that forcing teams to be composed of X amout of LIHL players and Y amount of 1200+ players would ruin the main idea, having fun teams with your friends.

We will keep your ideas in mind though and maybe we will be some special seasons eventually where every teams are random, or where team's captain needs to draft their players.

[Meshtar]

Ok, thanks for clarifying things a bit.

I understood you wanted to include players outside of lihl to make the league bigger and to give it more variety, considering that lihl probably doesn't have that many active players to make the league big enough. Either way, speaking from a realistic point of view, I'm pretty sure you won't get more than few 1200+ teams and even those will probably fade into inactivity after a couple of weeks of having their asses handed to them

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to answer and of course good luck with the league

[bezdak]

@meshtar You're tunnel-visioning here - It's not only to win but to have a chance to compete with your desired team, without the need of stacking or dodging or shit like that. Also 100% LIHL team =/= 100% win. We'll see how this thing will go but honestly I'm so hyped for it like I've never been on any Warcraft-related thing. I am also sure mega players will enjoy the hell out of it and I'm really glad my suggestion to include such teams went through. This is gonna be a great gaming experience!

[FateStayNight]

@Meshtar,

I have to agree with Kiwi that forcing teams to play in a certain constellation would not help the "problem". Yes we would have more even teams, but would they enjoy playing without their friends? I doub it, instead it would cause way more inactiviy in my opinion.
Also, i think its not unlikely for a 1200+ team to win against a lihlteam. All you need is one decent caller and the chances of winning are pretty good.

You need to see the first season as a testing season. We will discuss alot and make polls etc., to ensure that we make a league that provides enjoyable games for every player.

[Meshtar]

@Meshtar,

I have to agree with Kiwi that forcing teams to play in a certain constellation would not help the "problem". Yes we would have more even teams, but would they enjoy playing without their friends? I doub it, instead it would cause way more inactiviy in my opinion.
Also, i think its not unlikely for a 1200+ team to win against a lihlteam. All you need is one decent caller and the chances of winning are pretty good.

You need to see the first season as a testing season. We will discuss alot and make polls etc., to ensure that we make a league that provides enjoyable games for every player.

A few days ago, before you made the announcement, I told you I fear you lacked 1200+ perspective for this idea. I am pretty sure I know the real situation in 1200+ much better than most of you guys who play lihl and sometimes play 1200+ for fun and when there are no lihl games going. There are like 2-3 decent callers in whole 1200+ at most (and I am pretty sure none of those will want to play together ), so no, you are unlikely to get a competitive team from there.

Anyway, as I already said, I get your reasons for making the league the way it is, you want lihl friends to be able to play as a team, compete and have fun, so thats all good and fair, my point was more about the fact that it will fail to include people from the outside. Well, might be that I'm wrong about it anyway, I wish you best of luck with the league

[BoretkPanda]

@meshtar You're tunnel-visioning here - It's not only to win but to have a chance to compete with your desired team, without the need of stacking or dodging or shit like that. Also 100% LIHL team =/= 100% win. We'll see how this thing will go but honestly I'm so hyped for it like I've never been on any Warcraft-related thing. I am also sure mega players will enjoy the hell out of it and I'm really glad my suggestion to include such teams went through. This is gonna be a great gaming experience!

I dont see any full 1200 Teams be in any competitve Mode to the rest. And i know what im talking about since im prolly the most active lihl player at 1200.

and especially this part: "Requirements
Every team must have at least one player with experience on the 1200+ bot (ENT31)
"

so each mega team gets accepted?

have fun than with that "Note: We will provide a rough draft for every game being played but every team will have to communicate with other teams regarding the exact time the game will be played (platform being Discord). "

u think all those randoms appear to each date?

[HugMeOnce]

@Meshtar and to anyone else not feeling confident enough to join

I think its pretty weak minded to not enter competitions where other teams are perceptibly stronger than your own. With rng and rolls any competent team has the chance to beat another team regardless of who is "better" in a bo1 or bo3. I won a 2s tournament with rocknrolled. Yes THAT rocknrolled. Yes there were mostly LIHL players in the tournament. Tin won a 4s tournament with fantouoliver, thandrin, and undeadkingpr. Yes THAT undeadkingpr. Neither of us were playing LIHL at the time. Don't sell yourself short. All the pressure is on the LIHL teams to win. If you don't win, then it doesn't matter because no one was expecting you to win. If you do win then its a great underdog story and you get eternal bragging rights over the rest of the legion community.

Like what @bezdak said the point is to have fun and to compete with people you enjoy playing with.

Remember when I beat you in the finals of that 2s tourney? @Nore

@boretkpanda It's going to be a time frame where the 2 captains are going to work out whats best suited for one another.

[BoretkPanda]

@Meshtar and to anyone else not feeling confident enough to join

I think its pretty weak minded to not enter competitions where other teams are perceptibly stronger than your own. With rng and rolls any competent team has the chance to beat another team regardless of who is "better" in a bo1 or bo3. I won a 2s tournament with rocknrolled. Yes THAT rocknrolled. Yes there were mostly LIHL players in the tournament. Tin won a 4s tournament with fantouoliver, thandrin, and undeadkingpr. Yes THAT undeadkingpr. Neither of us were playing LIHL at the time. Don't sell yourself short. All the pressure is on the LIHL teams to win. If you don't win, then it doesn't matter because no one was expecting you to win. If you do win then its a great underdog story and you get eternal bragging rights over the rest of the legion community.

Like what @bezdak said the point is to have fun and to compete with people you enjoy playing with.

Remember when I beat you in the finals of that 2s tourney? @Nore

@boretkpanda It's going to be a time frame where the 2 captains are going to work out whats best suited for one another.

yea ik - just sayin that those Teams should be aware of adding Teammates randomly without any real possibilty of contact or experience to them

[Meshtar]

@Meshtar and to anyone else not feeling confident enough to join

I think its pretty weak minded to not enter competitions where other teams are perceptibly stronger than your own. With rng and rolls any competent team has the chance to beat another team regardless of who is "better" in a bo1 or bo3. I won a 2s tournament with rocknrolled. Yes THAT rocknrolled. Yes there were mostly LIHL players in the tournament. Tin won a 4s tournament with fantouoliver, thandrin, and undeadkingpr. Yes THAT undeadkingpr. Neither of us were playing LIHL at the time. Don't sell yourself short. All the pressure is on the LIHL teams to win. If you don't win, then it doesn't matter because no one was expecting you to win. If you do win then its a great underdog story and you get eternal bragging rights over the rest of the legion community.

Like what @bezdak said the point is to have fun and to compete with people you enjoy playing with.

Remember when I beat you in the finals of that 2s tourney? @Nore

@boretkpanda It's going to be a time frame where the 2 captains are going to work out whats best suited for one another.

Once again you are talking from the lihl point of view, which is very different than 1200+. You can play for fun, and you can play to compete and to win in a game you are good at. Sometimes those 2 things can combine and that's by far the best gaming experience.
Now that being said, people playing on 1200+ bot are like 95% random guys who like to occasionally play a game of LTD which doesn't require too much immersing into the game and especially into the community, you can see that by checking forum, none of them bothers posting anything but ban requests. So unlike lihl, people play with mostly different players every day, and there is barely any player "bonding" if you get my meaning. So if you expect buddy teams from 1200+ you will be surprised very much. I know I will be surprised if I see even one such team signing up. So that leaves the compete to win motive to play. Now if you get the best players from 1200+ you can get 2 decent teams max with chances to actually compete and do something in the league. Some of those won't work together due to personal disliking, toxicity etc. so if they start with low success rates they will fall apart pretty soon.

Finally, I never said I won't compete, even with a full 1200+ team. Contrary to the impression you maybe got from these posts, I am not selling myself short, nor do I think that I am worse than maybe even half of the lihl players. But getting a team to work together from the 1200+ pool of players is much harder than you think, mostly cause of the mentality i described above. These posts weren't about me, I just pointed out that you will fail to get the numbers you expected by opening the league for 1200+ players which, I suppose was the whole point of the idea, otherwise you would just have made this lihl exclusive league.

[aRt)Y]

Considering it just launched, let's wait and see. Being optimistic is the last thing in Warcraft 3 the players have actually control of. :)

[Jamo]

I think you are making a big deal out of nothing to be honest.
I mean, do you really think team spirit will be better when people are randomly forced to play with each other? Just to have a lihl player in each team? I am pretty sure it won't and this also was never happening in any tournament. I also think there are a lot of very decent 1200 players and now that one knows something like this league comes up, I am sure people will start watching out to form a team.

I think this whole idea came up after the latest (or the one before?) tournament (for me at least), which (I think) was a huge success. Several pure 1200 teams participated in that tournament and I think that was really awesome. They were super motivated to beat lihl players. Don't forget, luck is still a factor in LTD. And also you don't have 18 Real madrid teams in a soccer league.
I believe it is very nice to open this league up for 1200 players. Worst thing that can happen really is, that 1200 players improve

[bezdak]

Once again you are talking from the lihl point of view, which is very different than 1200+. You can play for fun, and you can play to compete and to win in a game you are good at. Sometimes those 2 things can combine and that's by far the best gaming experience.

I'm talking from the 1200+ point of view and it's pretty much the same. I wanna play in a competitive environment with people I love to play with, simple as that.

[raizoir]

@don_Killuminati with 3 1200+ (me + 2 others) made it to final of the first LTD tourney -

I think this is a good idea - anyone's game -