Complaint Hazardous

[Krayyzie]

Hello!
As Hazardous seems to want according to discord chat, and obviously what art)y prefers me to post a complaint also according to his answer to kiwi in the last complaint about hazardous(@ART)Y, May I ask how in hell you can write that I was in the mood to annoy Hazardous when he clearly baited it with Jabba? And also How can you write that I was not going to back up my claims when he goes "end of discussion", as fast as I start writing example of his abuses). Here comes the complaint even tho I know that you will back him up again.

Okay, started out when LIHL started using Discord bot. I was probably one of the most active players in lihl, and my history of abusing any rules is pretty much 100% clean. We were pubbing(me and 3 friends), all all out of sudden Hazardous unvouched me and 1-2 other players. Someone in our current pubgame said that we were unvouched and we were joking about it as it was impossible. However when we look at forum, we see that Hazardous unvouched us for Refusing to use Discord. When we did question this move by Hazard in forum he made stuff up that he spoke to us about getting discord and we refused. While I was telling him in forum, that this was wrong and a complete lie, he changes his story. Instead of talking to us about it, he said he wrote to us in lihl channel at battlenet. Most likely a lie, but this is not something that can be proven. But even if its true, it was missed, which happens easily if someone is afk or simply joining a game or something.
So instead of just going clear, admitting it was a bad move, he starts giving out forum bans, and removing posts in forum(only the ones against his actions, not the ones that benefits his own case).
I demand him to come clear, admit the fact that he did totally fail at this move. Without saying a word in forum or to me. He started telling people he did apologize for what he did(once again a lie, as he never ever said anything to me about it). And while he wrote this, he kept blaming me in forum being the reason that I was banned

This was quite some time ago, and this is something you could go chat with any of the lihl moderators that was active at that stage. Pretty much all of them were against his actions, and several of them told me that they were backing me up, but it was impossible to get him to admit his fault, and there was no point in trying. At the bottom of this complaint there is links to some of those threads.

This is also the reason I am not in lihl atm, and I have told everyone this since when they ask me why I dont play lihl. As I said I would not play lihl untill he admitted what he did was wrong and apologized for making up all that drama in forum. Nonstop blaming and warning people for posting against him while encouraging everyone who posted to his defence.


Okay so I joined LTL and decided to join Discord bot a short while ago.

It takes a few days before someone asks me to go back to lihl, and I answer as I always do( and will continue to do, as that is the truth.)
I dont play because of Hazardous(in discord bot I did not name him, i said "an abusive mod"). Abit more than 24 hours later he decides to bait some drama by making @Braveheart_wins. When he wrote this with his Moderator friend Jabba41 ready to write Boom! after he wrote it, he knew I would answer him.

Meshtarius - Last Wednesday at 7:14 PM
@KiwiLeKiller
we using the newest map for ltl or not?
I mean the one we were beta testing
or the previous one
Brave finaly made a discord
@Braveheart_wins
get your ass back to lihl
Braveheart_wins - Last Wednesday at 7:30 PM
Wont happen :smiley: get rid of your abusive mod and maybe I would consider it :smiley:


Hazardous - Last Thursday at 9:56 PM
@Braveheart_wins by that logic, you might aswell stop playing on ENT altogether.
Jabba41 - Last Thursday at 9:57 PM
boom
Braveheart_wins - Last Thursday at 10:02 PM
From what I´ve seen so far, you are not randomly banning people from pubs for no reason(and dodging ban from your own rule breaks), so seems okay so far...but I guess it might just be a matter of time :smiley:
Hazardous - Last Thursday at 10:04 PM
Everyone is capable of throwing accusations like you're doing right now
the difficult part comes when you're asked to provide evidence to back your claims
Braveheart_wins - Last Thursday at 10:04 PM
On which part?
Hazardous - Last Thursday at 10:05 PM
and until that criteria is met, and the proper process is followed (aka forum complaint), then you have no right to attack any of the staff members.
On which part? doesn't matter. You've proven to be unable to hold a rational discussion, so I won't bother. Just consider yourself warned with regards to throwing groundless accusations in wrong public channels.(ändrad)
Braveheart_wins - Last Thursday at 10:08 PM
Doesnt matter? which part do you want evienence on? Everyone knows your random ban was totally bs, and you never once wrote anything bout it was wrong to me. And for the ban dodging, first thing that comes to my mind, is when you went against lihl rules when you cancelled a 3s to make 4s without having people agree a ...week or 2 ago? If you want, I´ll give it a few mins to find some other nice example
You banned someone from signing early(before current game was over)
Then you did the same, and dodged ban once again?
Hazardous - Last Thursday at 10:12 PM
I could explain a lot of my actions, that I have no problem with. But the fact that you neither came to see me or bothered to post a complaint proves to me that it is worthless to argue with you.
Broud3r - Last Thursday at 10:13 PM
do you mind arguing in privat?
Braveheart_wins - Last Thursday at 10:13 PM
Why would I bother doing that? I make the simple move and did not go back to lihl, I asked for you to admit ur fault and write a simple apologize about it, and you refused. And the way you are running lihl atm, with different rules for yourself as a mod is quite bad
Hazardous - Last Thursday at 10:13 PM
Nothing to argue, as I said. Conversation is over.


As you can see in this conversation, after he @me and obviously baits drama, I answer him as he is the reason I dont play lihl.
First answer from him, once again, warning people right away. And asking me to back up my accusations.
Im asking, which of the accusations he needs me to back up with evidence? When I start to back up the accusations with information about 3 different situations when he abused(When he clearly lied about talking to me about Discord, when he dodged lihl ban when he signed for a game without his current game being finished, and when he !abort a game to start 4s while players signed did not agree to it)

Here are some of those examples when he abuse his power.


He banned people for signing to early, and then later he does this(and doesnt take the same penalty as he gives out to others claiming)
viewtopic.php?f=207&t=119129

7 Day unvouch because another player did not agree on call(which was appealed and accepted as appeal as fast as another mod looked into it)
viewtopic.php?f=85&t=118346
viewtopic.php?f=85&t=118354

And this is another one that happened quite some time ago.
As you can see in this thread, he clearly went against standard lihl rules, and once again could not even admit what he did was wrong, because cancelling a 3s to make 4s when only 7 players is okay(it has never been fully accepted to do that in lihl)
viewtopic.php?f=207&t=120537&p=468320&hilit=abort#p468320
Those are just some examples.


Here are some of the links to those forum threads about his nonsense ban. And of course, those are without counting his out of forum threatening to warn and ban people.And by the way, as you seem to want people to back up their claims. Not once in this whole situation he proved any kind of evidence that he even tried to speak to us before unvouching.

viewtopic.php?f=207&t=112985
viewtopic.php?f=207&t=112273
viewtopic.php?f=207&t=112912
viewtopic.php?f=207&t=112915
viewtopic.php?f=207&t=112964
viewtopic.php?f=207&t=112965

And this is just a link to the complaint about hazard that was dismissed yesterday, ALSO with the same things, deleting forum posts, threatening people with ban for no reason, and clearly not acting a way a moderator should?
viewtopic.php?f=31&t=121263

[aRt)Y]

Hi,

How can you write that I was not going to back up my claims when he goes "end of discussion", as fast as I start writing example of his abuses).

Mainly because you've not posted a complaint until I stated so on Kiwi's.

Most likely a lie, but this is not something that can be proven. But even if its true, it was missed, which happens easily if someone is afk or simply joining a game or something.
So instead of just going clear, admitting it was a bad move, he starts giving out forum bans, and removing posts in forum(only the ones against his actions, not the ones that benefits his own case).

Seems contradicting. One the one hand, you admit that you could have missed it and on the other, you blame Hazardous for failing to inform you. Rather than talking about what can be proven, simply do it. That's what a complaint is for: you provide us the evidence.

With that said, the entire LIHL migration has been announced, perhaps a bit late as we already admitted but communicated, nonetheless. So this instance has already been dealt with. No abuse since the unvouching in order to move on Discord was a necessary step.

First answer from him, once again, warning people right away. And asking me to back up my accusations.

Either it's an LIHL tradition to go overboard with everything or you simply have a habit for it. Telling someone to post a complaint is no warning. There's also a difference between "be careful"-sort of warnings and actual ones logged on the forum/discord. Besides, I already commented on this on Kiwi's complaint.


Regarding your examples:

He banned people for signing to early, and then later he does this(and doesnt take the same penalty as he gives out to others claiming)

If I interpret the moderator's post correctly, the decision was agreed upon by the league staff.

So looking back on that, we haven't been straight with how we deal it, leading to an unvouch for you and no unvouch for others. Sorry for that.
-https://entgaming.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=207&t=119129&start=30#p462854

7 Day unvouch because another player did not agree on call(which was appealed and accepted as appeal as fast as another mod looked into it)

LIHL is a highly difficult field for moderators. The decisions are usually very subjective of what moderators deem skilled or newby; how a rule can be interpreted and enforced. Given the user in question already had a history of wrong-doings (see quote below), it is easy to give him the final "kick" - meanwhile, it is also simple to question such decision in hindsight.

Consider this ur final warning, next time u will get banned for 1 week with no chance to appeal and if this keeps on going u will finally earn ur permaunvouch.
-https://entgaming.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=85&t=117554&start=15#p457948

It surprises me though that people always call for abuse if that's exactly what ENT has an appeal process for. ENT moderators might do a mistake, too, because they sometimes might be overly senstive or eager. Does it mean it was ill-intended? No. Does it mean it is abuse as defined by ENT? No. Hazardous did what he thought was correct in that situation and increased his ban given the severity of the user's history; and the fact his team agreed afterwards to overturn his decision does not make it abusive. Abusive is if he banned users with no reason whatsoever.

As you can see in this thread, he clearly went against standard lihl rules, and once again could not even admit what he did was wrong, because cancelling a 3s to make 4s when only 7 players is okay(it has never been fully accepted to do that in lihl)

"has never been fully accepted" is as vague as it can get.. Either it is accepted or it isnt. You can't have it both ways and side with one of it. Neither do you actually comment on Hazardous' statement regarding the technical aspects of it.

I AM STUBBORNLY REFUSING TO USE DISCORD.
-https://entgaming.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=207&t=112912

The decision to migrate LIHL on Discord via this procedure has already been covered by me above. But as you seem to copy/paste everything twice, let me repeat myself as well: The Staff Dept. had to decide how to move LIHL to Discord, mainly for technical reasons, and how to do so the fastest. Considering the battle.net bots were shut down and only Discord was used to vouching/signing, having you vouched on bnet made zero sense anyway - it's literally useless for you. You had to be on Discord in order to sign/play. So stating that you dislike Discord is one thing but getting mad on Hazardous for moving the entire league on a new technical platform with new tools no one in the Warcraft 3 community used before is a dishonour to his service for this community. I also assume you never even thought about what it means from a technical aspect and organizational one to achieve this migration. Not only because it is complex but also because the league players are everything but easy to deal with.

And yes, it might seem that Hazardous is often taking the lead because no other in the LIHL staff is capable of taking all that shit coming 24/7. Otherwise, we would have lihl mods longer than x months. Besides, to stress it again, it was a necessity unless, of course, you prefered not playing LIHL at all.

So with all the links you provided - surely, they look impressive in number - you provided nothing but official announcements from Hazardous, posts complaining about topics being moved because they are redundant thanks to said announcements and LIHL staff members taking a neutral position for what has happened.

Its not question to take this personal, of course some mistakes have been done. In terms of communication seems we didnt manage to get to all our members informed correctly about discord, moving lihl, etc. But i hope this gets addressed with the several topics im posting now.
-https://entgaming.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=207&t=112965

Does LIHL's league staff only consists of one member? No, it's a team. So any failure on their side is a team failure and not just one single person. I can't preached how often we told LIHL's staff to make guides and to promote Discord in order to avoid communication failures. Apparently, it didn't work and the team apologized for it. Ignoring all of that and simply pointing the finger on Haz seems the easiest though, eh?


With that said, these complaints are a farce. You are using material that has already been rejected, is months old and has not been communicated to your league staff prior to posting the complaint or simply is a one-sided view of events by entirely missing the big picture.

Furthermore, starting your complaint with "Here comes the complaint even tho I know that you will back him up again." entirely discredits you of any seriousness for this complaint and also reflects your general LIHL-attitude towards making unobjective, baiting topics.

If any of you wants to continue this witch-hunt in order to entirely push hazardous out of the community by publicly bad-mouthing him, then at least have the decency to go through the proper steps: a) you disagree with a decision, b) you consult your league staff, c) you've a mediated discussion, d) as final straw, you post your complaint.

It is one of the easiest things to ignore what is good and to only point out the negative. But the way users phrase and stress it makes the difference; and even the Staff Dept. takes certain things to a personal level - we lose the joy and fun for the community and it's difficult to return unlike the majority of LIHL staff members who quit and never looked back.

To close this complaint, if you've new evidence, dont wait months to address it. Go to your league staff and have them deal with it. Furthermore, if the LIHL staff decides that Hazardous is no longer bearable, they - as any league staff - have the choice to boot a member from the team with valid reasons. Given that I've not seen or read that tendency among the staff as there're no reasons to doubt him, Hazardous remains as LIHL moderator with all its duties.

Case closed.