ENT Gaming

I would like to lodge a complaint about @larz behavior in enforcing votekick "abuse" rules in DOTA:

Here is the particular instance in question where I filed a ban appeal:

viewtopic.php?p=410996#p410996

You can read the details there, but (this is my side of the story):

I accidently led creeps to Larz's mines once (who is playing as techies, I was slark). Five minutes later, I see he has no mines on the map. I ask him and he tells me in chat that he would not place mines ("why place mines if u will just blow them up). That to me sounds like game ruining, so I start a votekick.

He immediately bans me. I reply asking whether a single votekick is abuse. He says it is.

Ok, rewind:

On a previous instance a few months ago (viewtopic.php?f=31&t=101020) I was illegally votekicked in a game which another mod (beerlord) was in the game. Here is the relevant conversation (my username was MonkeyKnuts):

(17:45 / All) MonkeyKnuts4U: illegal votekick
...
(17:55 / All) MonkeyKnuts4U: beer can u ban these ppl
...
(18:09 / All) MonkeyKnuts4U: no?
(18:19 / All) cute-girl: A votekick against player [MonkeyKnuts4U] has expired.
(18:28 / All) MonkeyKnuts4U: i report u guys
(18:33 / All) MonkeyKnuts4U: for votekick abuse
(18:38 / All) BeerLord: 1 attempt not abuse
(18:44 / All) MonkeyKnuts4U: ok
(18:46 / All) BeerLord: report if more

I eventually file the complaint about this previous instance. During this complaint, Larz was the "third party" moderator, and he did not place any fault for this illegal "1 votekick attempt".

So I leave that previous instance with the impression that, fine one votekick is not abuse, because I explicitly call it out, and the mods tell me it is not abuse.

From my perspective, I see one (previous) instance where an illegal votekick is OK because it only happened once. And now in this current instance, that is definitely against the rules.

Of course, when I posted this as a ban appeal, the reply I get is:
"@CupcakeKilla it is to the moderator's decision whether or not a votekick is abusive or not."

It seems like when a Moderator is the person who is being votekicked, suddenly the rules are extra strict because it is convenient for them.

@hazardous
@aRt)Y

The votekick rule is a case-by-case decision that any moderator can make. For instance, beerlord believes 1 votekick attempt is not abuse as in it doesn't call for immediate action and some could argue differently. It doesn't mean that the rule is any differently than how we define it. We, the ENT staff, all equally find votekick abuse exactly how it sounds. We choose to enforce it per our own decision, it's how it works.

Moving forward with your appeal, I've taken a particular interest in it and looked into the replay itself. I do find your votekick both abusive and unnecessary. Your initiation was under false reasoning. At the specific time of the votekick (16:00 or so) Larz was placing mines near the sentinel ancient spawn followed by some stun wards in the middle. He showed no sign of refusing to play/help team, in-fact helping it. If you failed to have seen that, then perhaps you should take a greater investigation before initiating a vote to kick someone from the game.

You have a recent history with votekick abuse and now you're caught in the same situation. I'd hope a player who's been through the justice system before would understand our votekick rules. Bottom line, no member of the ENT staff will tolerate any false/phony or invalid votekicks and you were penalized for it.

Now with your complaint, the way Larz conducted himself both in your appeal and your in-game ban was fine. Another moderator (SeriouslyStrange) also commented on your appeal trying to explain the same thing, now I am telling you; The votekick was abuse and you will remained banned. Feel free to appeal in the coming days, my recommendation is to re-read our votekick rules and understand them before you attempt such again.

Processed.