Auto Ban for WMW

[ShiroKami]

I just got banned for leaving a game in WMW, well it was my very first time leaving a WMW game before it ended. (And in ID I never leave before I die so, this would be my very first leave :S)
Therefore I got banned for 30 minutes. Luckily I have a High stay rate.
Well the ban was well deserved, as it is mentioned in every game: Leaving is bannable.
But well, in that situation I forgot about it.

However that got me thinking.

I think Auto Ban should be disabled for WMW. I left the to make the game fairer for my team.
The situation is as followed:

In WMW the team with less players actually have a tremendous advantage.

So leaving to make the game fair shouldn't be punished.
For instance, it started out as a 3v3, but one player of team 1 is AFK.
The team with now 2 players get much more gold from kills, because they get creeps send by 3 players.
The other team however only gets creeps from 2 players.
This gold discrepancy is huge and makes the game utterly unfair in favor of the team with less players.

Therefore I want to ask, whether it is possible to disable Auto Ban for WMW.
If players leave in an even match up, there is still the possibility to post a ban request.

[nabo.]

You dont leave "for your team". Ever.
Why? because that is cheating.
You are supposed to play from the start till the end. Forcefully removing yourself to give a technical advantage or removing yourself because you are the "bad" or "noob" player are invalid reasons.
Adjusting and playing with the random variables is part of teamwork.

Your autoban was 30 minutes.
It is possible to remove autoban. We do have autoban disables for non-team-oriented games.

[ShiroKami]

So you have to play even if it means certain defeat?
For instance:
Starting Situation: 3v3
Someone in Team 1 disconnects right after the game starts.
Therefore making it 2v3.
Even if team 2 is going to be defeated with 100% certainty (thats just how WMW balance is) if they continue to play and waste about 30 minutes?
1 player of team 2 isnt allowed to leave to make this game 2v2?

EDIT:
I dont mean leaving for a Technical advantage. I am talking about leaving to make the game fair and balanced once more, as it was before (making a 2v3 to be a 2v2, for instance)
Leaving to give a technical advantage shouldn't be done, but leaving to balance the game, to restore the status quo should be allowed right?

[Burn]

Isn't leaving to make the game fair in DotA is allowed?

-Burn

[nabo.]

@shirokami
You dont leave to make the game "fair". That is a subjective argument.
The game is supposed to be how the game started from beginning to end. Just because someone leaves, doesnt mean you can leave yourself.

Why does the team with lesser player have more advantage? ????? Yes, you do get more gold from kills, but 3 players can have their own income every round. Clarify.

@burn
For dota, gold income is different based on your number of teammates. Leaving to make teams fair is not valid. But, you may leave if its 3 v 5, 2 v 5, 1 v 5 without getting autoban.

[Burn]

I see. Thanks for clarifying.

-Burn

[ShiroKami]

It is quite simple.
In WMW creeps have to go through the sides, which is covered by 1 player each. And in a 3v3 the player in the middle does nothing except sending creeps. And herein lies the tricky part. One may think that not building any towers and solely concentrating on sending creeps for income would yield more income, but that is utterly false. The 3rd player doesnt build any towers but doesn't get any kills either. The players on sides get creeps send by 3 players. Therefore 2 players get gold from creeps send by 3 players. In an ideal game (3v3) this would apply to both teams.

In a 3v3 Situation:
- the 2 players on the sides on both teams get creep kills send by 3 players
- the 3rd player in the rear on both teams doesnt get any kills
- after only a few minutes into the game one can see a noticable difference in income between the 2 players on the sides and the 3rd player in the rear
- when the game reaches mid game (when frozen infernals are available) the 2 players on the side at least have double the income of the 3rd player
==> that alone shows the difference between killing creeps and not killing creeps
- the longer the game goes on the gap becomes bigger and bigger
- but this applies to both teams as it is a 3v3

In 2v3 Situation:
Team 1 has 2 players
Team 2 has 3 players
- team 1 gets creeps send by 3 players
- team 2 gets creeps send by 2 players
- if every player sends 10 ghouls = 10 income per ghoul and 10 gold per kill
==> team 1 gets 30 ghouls each side = 300 kill gold and 100 gold income for next round for each player
===> 800 gold => 400 gold per player
==> team 2 gets 20 ghouls each side = 200 kill gold for each side player (middle gets nothing) and 100 gold income for each player
===> 700 gold => 300 gold for each side player and 100 gold for middle player

-special note:
each player in team 1 will be able to use the 300 kill gold to send more creeps for more income,
where as the side players on team 2 can only use 200 gold and the last player can use nothing because he got no kills.

In this example it is clear that the 3rd player in team 2 is giving them 100 gold each just for this round.

WMW is a basically a racing game. So who can get more income faster is the winner.
If you have more income, you can send better creeps more often, which increases your income and at the same time forces your enemy to upgarde his defense, wasting his gold.
When the 2 players in team 1 reach 100 000 income each (200 000 total), the 2 players of team 2 depending on how much they had to upgrade range from 50 000 - 60 000 and the last player at most 30 000 (130 000 - 150 000 total)
At this point the game is definitely over, well it was over before it started.
The only thing team 2 is doing is to unnessecarily waste their time.

And in a 2v3 situation the team with 2 players will always have much more income than the team with 3 players combined.
The same principle applies in a 1v2 situation and even more in 1v3.
It is impossible to lose in an uneven match up as the team with less players.

The only exception is if a player leaves after the game has progressed to the point where gold does not matter anymore.
In this case it is possible to win as the team with more players. But it will be considerably harder than in an even match up.

Summary:
All the extra player does, is giving away free gold to the enemy team

[Burn]

I understand Shirokami, I think players should be able to leave in a 3v2 match in WMW since it's basically certain loss. WMW is different to DotA where that extra player will basically give the other team 33% more income, which is a fucktonne in WMW.

DotA you can still win 4v5, since you have shared control, and sometimes you're more fed than the other team.

I like the DotA2 system where if there is one leaver, anyone else who leaves is not autobanned. Only the first leaver gets autobanned (AKA abandon).

nabo. still makes a great point though, but in this case I think I am siding with Shirokami, as a WMW player myself I have wanted to leave early multiple times because it was 3v2.

-Burn

[ShiroKami]

Well this was the first time I ever left a game so early because they had a leaver/afk, since I came back in may/june.
You can check my WMW history.
I had dozens of games where the enemy had a leaver and still continued, just because I spent time waiting in the lobby and time playing it already.
The WMW community isn't big, so games are not filling as fast as one hopes it to.
And sadly as burn stated correctly, there is no auto balance in WMW like it is in dota 2, concering the gold income.

I also think leaving to give your team and unfair advantage shouldn't be allowed and met with punishment.
However, leaving to restore balance I think should be considered an option in games where there is no auto balancing system.

[nabo.]

How the mid player (the "3rd wheel") impacts the game will differ depending on how early and how much he has to build. If the sides are not leaking and being optimal with their sending, Having an extra race can be beneficial. Also, it really depends how the 3 players save and send. There is a difference between 3 players sending air vs 2 players sending air. I do agree though that wmw is most of the time an income game since sending bigger creeps is more beneficial than building better upgraded towers.

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About 1300-1400 wmw games are played per week.

I personally have not seen many players get autobanned from wmw.

Autobal does discourage players from leaving.

Although itd be best to just have autoban enabled only when teams are even, we can just disable autoban for now.

[uakf.b]

What is the suggestion here? It is mentioned to only enable autoban when teams are even, but for WMW the autoban mode should be the default which is to only autoban the first leaver. So the suggestion doesn't make much sense, unless you are saying it is not just autobanning the first leaver?

[nabo.]

@uakf.b

Oh, I did not know that autoban only applied to first leaver.

That is fine then. Thx for clarification.