Ban appeals should not be processed by same Admin who requested the Ban

[Mullinium17]

I was recently banned by an Admin real-time during a game. Having felt the ban was unjust, I submitted a ban appeal. Immediately after I submitted the ban appeal, the same Admin who submitted the ban against me processed the appeal and rejected it.

If this is truly how ENT operates, the Admin's have too much power (i.e. judge, jury, executioner). It essentially makes any ban submitted by an admin un-debatable - which is problematic as there are some (Admins) who abuse their power.

My suggestion is for all ban appeals against an Admin ban request, be processed by a third-party Admin.

PM me if you would like to investigate the Admin whom I am referring to.

[HazarDous]

@Mullinium17

Moderators have processed their own requests for years. Game moderators basically have 2 jobs.

1. Processing forum ban requests/appeals.
2. Moderating in-games.


Having a third admin/mod reviewing another mod's ban everytime would be a waste of administrative resources.



An easy solution to the problem of ''bias'' you are refering to, is to ask for a third party (moderator or administrator) to review the ban through your ban appeal.

If you do so, the same moderator which banned you will not process your appeal.

[supersexyy]

Where a player is making an appeal and that the original ban be reconsidered, it is common sense a different mod should review it.

[RadiantCrystal]

@supersexyy having another mod review the case basically mean double the workload as the moderator who first processed the request should have a thorough knowledge of the circumstances. If one feels he/she has been treated unfairly, they can always @ another mod to look at it then. We would not force another mod review a ban appeal unless the moderator wishes to do so by his/her own will.

Note for op, you can always drop by our chat and see if one can go through a ban request/appeal with you.

[supersexyy]

It's obvious that if a player is making an appeal he wants another mod to look at it.
It shouldn't be a requirement for the op to @ another mod as it doesn't follow a logical process.

[Mullinium17]

@HazarDous

"Moderators have processed their own requests for years"

That may be the case, but that doesn't make it the right way to operate. I posted this topic in the "suggestion" forum because the process needs to be improved. I have played on ENT for many years and have never had to appeal a ban. But now having been banned, it did not take me long to understand the current process and quickly identify its flaws. No jurisdiction system in the world operates like this.


"An easy solution to the problem of ''bias'' you are refering to, is to ask for a third party (moderator or administrator) to review the ban through your ban appeal."

I would love to "request" another Admin to review my ban appeal, but the accusing Admin shut down my ban appeal almost immediately after I made it (a point I was trying to make in my original post). No other Admin had a chance to look at it, and because the appeal had been "processed", I was no longer able to post to it to make any type of request or to make any other rebuttal to the false accusations.


Bottom line is... a ban appeal is essentially worthless if you're banned by an Admin, as they have the power to reject your ban appeal. Admins know this and can use this power in-game as a shield to whoever gets in their way (obviously not all Admins abuse this authority, but some do).

During my particular game, remarks were made on and off between this Admin and I. Later in the game, after making some cautious smart moves to avoid ganks, this Admin accuses me of MH and submits a MH ban. After this Admin rejected my ban appeal, I finally realized the ban had nothing to do with MH, but rather he was saying "I don't like the way you talked to me". He takes snippets of text from the game log to prove his point, however any goating and derogatory remarks made by the Admin are left off the forum. There is no mention of the wild accusation of MH and the Admin essentially says "you are banned because I did not get the apology I want". If this is not a sign of power lust, I don't know what is. Doing some quick historical research on the Admin who banned me, it's pretty clear this Admin hands out bans if he's not treated like royalty. I was not surprised that this was an isolated incident and has happened many times before.

Sorry, but a few bad eggs is causing this situation. Circumstances like this need to be avoided with a third party moderator.

[Mullinium17]

@RadiantCrystal

"having another mod review the case basically mean double the workload"

I completely understand your concern, which is valid (trust me, I deal with this dilemma all the time managing my company). You are essentially bringing up the age-old question "Do we do what's right? Or do we do what's easy?". To me, the answer is clear... but I'm not in charge, you guys are.

[Trustmebro]

Soooo after some difficulty I found the game in question, there is no record of the ban when searched and no ban request posted. I'm not going to get into whether or not he was actually mh'ing because I don't think that is the heart of the issue here, and in games against speakenglishFOB I have often felt he was mh'ing too. What I find troubling is that there is essentially zero review here. Agreements, as is clear through the game's chat, was having a bad game and visibly agitated (i.e. He actually accused blue of mh'ing first and had already banned lightblue for "QQ" and was generally not doing anything to help the situation such as using the !ignore command as mods often like to tell us players).

That being said he eventually accuses speakenglishFOB of maphack several times and eventually bans him for it. That in and of itself isn't so terrible but to then have no record of it and the ban request rejected and processed within the brief window of 22 minutes after it was first posted (when it can sometimes take hours or a day to even be looked at) reeks of injustice. Maphack is supposed to be the worst offense taken most seriously and subject to the highest burdens of proof such that the vast majority of requests by players get outright rejected because the case just isn't strong enough and one instance is virtually never enough. As guilty as a player may be this is just not how it should be handled and is essentially a big fuck you to all the players out there who submit ban requests.

I'm not necessarily advocating the third party mod review stance but in this case it seems pretty obvious that agreements should not have touched the appeal and let someone else handle it.

The game in question:
https://entgaming.net/openstats/dota/game/7045371/
http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 045371.w3g

[Hatedmaru]

Usually the moderator who processes the ban, reviews the appeal simply for the fact that, more than everyone, he reviewed the ban request or knows what happened ingame and can explain/clarify the ban issued - It would be doubling the work (and somehow wasting administrative resources as mentioned before) if everytime a ban is processed, someone double checks it on the appeal.

Note: You can, and should, always ask for a 2nd moderator to check your appeal if for some reason you don't agree with the ban itself, or the decision taken on the appeal - Even if the appeal is processed, you can still come on chat and ask for help/clarification/2nd review, or PM a different moderator asking for it, there's always moderators online (most of the time ^^) which will certainly help you if required.

[Trustmebro]

Hyo:

Usually the moderator who processes the ban, reviews the appeal simply for the fact that, more than everyone, he reviewed the ban request or knows what happened ingame and can explain/clarify the ban issued - It would be doubling the work (and somehow wasting administrative resources as mentioned before) if everytime a ban is processed, someone double checks it on the appeal.

HazarDous:

Just don't process ban requests on yourself @AroundthaWorld, but you already know that.
Same for appeals that ''call you out for abuse''.

Mullinium17:

his actions regarding ban requests are childish and with no justification. In this game alone, he made 2 ban requests on teammates simply out of bitterness and because he played awful, struggled the entire game and was looking to ban anyone who challenged him in any way. He clearly uses his ban request privileges out of spite and not actual game play.

That sure sounds to me like hes calling out agreements for abuse though. This is getting confusing. I guess if what you mean is review but not process then it makes sense but if by review you mean process then the player base is getting mixed messages.

[Hatedmaru]

Hmm maybe i wasn't clear enough, my bad:

What i do mean is that usually the moderator who reviewed/processed the ban request, or issued the ingame ban, reviews/processes the appeal for the previous reasons mentioned.

While i can understand what you mean in the last point, for a future note, it's best to explain/clarify exactly what is being presented: While it does look he's calling agreements as you mentioned, it can also be identified as he's trying to justify his ban/appeal with that story - Not trying to "excuse" or "justify" it, simply it works for both ways ^^

Nonetheless as i mentioned before, users can, and should always ask for a 2nd moderator review on the appeal, on chat or via PM if they require it.

[aRt)Y]

If you arent satisfied with the outcome of a ban request or ban appeal, you can re-post it. The final step will be the complaint.

While certain people' faith in other user is equal to zero, the ENT management does believe that the moderators we choose are capable of keeping professional and to act reasonable within the guidelines and rules given to them.

As usual, their actions are being monitored and checked. However, as a full member of ENT, you've the same rights to request another mod or to question a mod's actions.

Due to administrative processes, we will not _forbid_ moderators who banned users to process said players appeals.
Entirely different are cases where mods process ban requests against themselves or ban appeals for themselves; that's abuse.