Anti- Hack and Ban Dodging System

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Palsgraf
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Anti- Hack and Ban Dodging System

Postby Palsgraf » Wed Apr 24, 2013 6:37 pm

I have a suggestion that will keep out map hackers, prevent ban dodging, and increase forum participation: launch a series of bots that require registration on and linking to the forum in order to play on those bots.

While I personally am in favor of requiring this on every bot, I understand and appreciate the concerns that others have that such a requirement would drive people away from ENT. That is why my proposal is to launch only a few bots that require it and test to see if it works and proves popular. After a month or so, we can decide whether to expand the program, shut it down, or just keep it going as-is.

Here is how I think it should be implemented:
    1) Label any bot that requires registration and linking [ENT-AH] (for anti-hack)

    2) Have a temporary lobby appear for those that try to join the game that are not registered (similar to the temporary lobby that people see when they are banned). In that lobby, have a message telling them that this bot is an Anti-Hack pilot bot and requires registration to play on. Tell the player to come to clanent.net, sign up for the forum, and link their account.

    3) Require email address confirmation in order to sign up to the forum (I can't remember if this is already required). Just send a link to their email address when they sign up that they have to click to activate their account.

The benefits of this are obvious:
We already do everything we can to discourage map hackers by banning and stripping their stats. This works great for players that actually care about their stats, but it does nothing to discourage those that seek to cheat at any cost and ruin games. There are plenty of players on our bots that do just that.

These are also the people that are most likely to ban dodge. If they get caught, all they do is create a new BNET account and change their IP -- and they are back playing on ENT bots. The [ENT-AH] bots would require said hackers to sign up for a new email address, change their IP, come to clanent.net, sign up for a new forum account, log back into their email to activate their forum account, sign onto bnet to create a new bnet account, go back to clanent to link their bnet account, and back to bnet to confirm the link. These additional steps would discourage hackers (and ban dodgers) from playing on any [ENT-AH] bots, and they would likely take their hacking and ban dodging elsewhere.

The additional benefit of such a system is that it would drive more people to the forum, thereby increasing community participation (which we rely upon for ban requests) -- and more ad revenue to keep ENT going :)

"Suspicious Subnet Alert"
Of course, this is not foolproof - but aside from banning subnets and innocent people in turn, there is little more we can do. To protect against those who would go through all the above hoops just to ban dodge, we could make a "suspicious subnet alert" -- that is, if someone comes onto clanent and signs onto the forum from a subnet where a map hacker was recently caught, we would get an alert and know to keep an eye on them.

Conclusion:
I hope this wasn't too long for you to read. I obviously feel passionately about this and my only motivation is to make ENT the best gaming community on bnet.

Please let me know what you think of this idea and if it would be worth at least trying.
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Re: Anti- Hack and Ban Dodging System

Postby cyberpunk » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:30 pm

looks like In-house league to me.
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Re: Anti- Hack and Ban Dodging System

Postby Palsgraf » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:33 pm

cyberpunk wrote:looks like In-house league to me.

Except there aren't any auto-hosted bots that are in-house league. This would be auto-hosting just like any other game.

EDIT: It also wouldn't be "vouch-based".
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Re: Anti- Hack and Ban Dodging System

Postby BrotherMols » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:41 pm

This would be basically the HR bot, with games only starting when organised in a lobby - as the only people that would take the time to register and play on it are the 'pros'.

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Re: Anti- Hack and Ban Dodging System

Postby Palsgraf » Wed Apr 24, 2013 7:49 pm

BrotherMols wrote:This would be basically the HR bot, with games only starting when organised in a lobby - as the only people that would take the time to register and play on it are the 'pros'.

Except in this case you wouldn't have to organize the game - it would be auto-hosted. In addition, many first-timers come onto the forum to ask questions and post ban-requests -- so this would include anyone who registers, and not just "pros".
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Re: Anti- Hack and Ban Dodging System

Postby teller55 » Wed Apr 24, 2013 11:48 pm

palsgraf wrote:
cyberpunk wrote:[...]It also wouldn't be "vouch-based".
It basically would be if people need to come on forum and we have to approved them.

Also, how is this going to improve against hackers and ban dodgers, are you going to personally review each user's games before approving them to play on these approved bots?

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Re: Anti- Hack and Ban Dodging System

Postby cyberpunk » Thu Apr 25, 2013 12:48 am

Let's say I'm the mher, You'll ban me then I'll dodge, I'll make a new account with a new email with a registration with a new ip and then I'll maphack your server again. It's a loop.
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Re: Anti- Hack and Ban Dodging System

Postby Palsgraf » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:21 am

teller55 wrote:
palsgraf wrote:
cyberpunk wrote:[...]It also wouldn't be "vouch-based".
It basically would be if people need to come on forum and we have to approved them.

Also, how is this going to improve against hackers and ban dodgers, are you going to personally review each user's games before approving them to play on these approved bots?


I said it would NOT be vouch based. In other words, all you have to do is register on the forums and validate your bnet account with your forum name. It's what many people already do. There is no approval process.

We have 1197 validated players already, out of 4098 forum users -- that means over 25% of the forum users have validated their BNET accounts already. For these people, they would not need to do anything to join the [ENT-AH] games.

For the remaining ~2900, all they'd have to do is validate their BNET account and they'd be golden.

It improves against dodgers bc it becomes more of a hassle to create new accounts. In addition to making a new BNET and IP, they'd also need a new email to sign up for a new forum account and then validate that new BNET account with their new forum account. If they were recently banned, we could have an alert system that tells us that someone with the same subnet as the recently banned person just signed up for the forums -- that way we can keep an eye on them. And once you improve against dodgers, you automatically improve against hackers.

Of course it's not foolproof, but it's a heck of a lot better than what we have now.

cyberpunk wrote:Let's say I'm the mher, You'll ban me then I'll dodge, I'll make a new account with a new email with a registration with a new ip and then I'll maphack your server again. It's a loop.

Ok, and without this system you just need a different BNET name and a new IP. Basically, it's much more of a hassle for map hackers to hack on our system and many more steps to dodge a ban -- they'll go to BGN or Cash.

Plus, the suspicious subnet alert would help us track down dodgers as soon as they register on our forum.
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Re: Anti- Hack and Ban Dodging System

Postby NutzSucksHard » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:10 am

The only problem is that the system that will alert a subnet... Will be broken some how.. Reason ; you can put 100 person on an alert for one subnet. So it's risky, it's not cause the alert pop, that it will clear the problem, you need to be sure it is the same person.

I HAVE TO ADD. It's not WOW but wc3 forum, chance that 100 person with approx same subnet get banned and affect by it are small. Maybe 10 person of the 100 will be affect cause they actually play on ENT bot.

You have to calculate this way. I'm maybe the only one in my neighborhood or maybe there's 2-3 person maximum playing dota ON ENT. So if they get affect they will just come and appeal. Whitelist them. GG.

We're lucky that people are getting less interest in WC3... It reduce the chance of subnet mistake to bother some people.

If we had 8 millions player on ENT, we couldn't ban subnet, it would affect a to large amount of player. Ok I'am tired I wanna go sleep. Translation from my first language to english killing me. Cya, after a greeeaaatttt... Sleep. :)

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Re: Anti- Hack and Ban Dodging System

Postby Palsgraf » Thu Apr 25, 2013 3:19 am

NutzSucksHard wrote:The only problem is that the system that will alert a subnet... Will be broken some how.. Reason ; you can put 100 person on an alert for one subnet. So it's risky, it's not cause the alert pop, that it will clear the problem, you need to be sure it is the same person.

I HAVE TO ADD. It's not WOW but wc3 forum, chance that 100 person with approx same subnet get banned and affect by it are small. Maybe 10 person of the 100 will be affect cause they actually play on ENT bot.

You have to calculate this way. I'm maybe the only one in my neighborhood or maybe there's 2-3 person maximum playing dota ON ENT. So if they get affect they will just come and appeal. Whitelist them. GG.

We're lucky that people are getting less interest in WC3... It reduce the chance of subnet mistake to bother some people.

If we had 8 millions player on ENT, we couldn't ban subnet, it would affect a to large amount of player. Ok I'am tired I wanna go sleep. Translation from my first language to english killing me. Cya, after a greeeaaatttt... Sleep. :)


I think I understand what you're saying...

Here's why I think that wouldn't be a problem. The alert would only trigger if the person who signs up for the forum comes from a subnet where a person was recently banned. Normally a ban dodger would not wait a week or two to dodge the ban -- if they get banned, they dodge it and keep playing right away. So if someone from the same subnet signs up for the forum a month later, it would not trigger the alert.

This would significantly limit the number of false alarms. As you said, the chances of two people being on the same subnet today is very slim, considering the lack of players interested in WC3. The chances of two people signing up for a new account on the forum from the same subnet as someone who was banned in the last 2-3 weeks is even slimmer.

Remember, those from the same subnet as someone who is banned will be unaffected. The alert only triggers when someone tries to sign up a new account on the forum from a subnet where someone was recently banned. Thus, if you happened to be on the same subnet as someone who was recently banned but already have a forum account, nothing would be different.
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Re: Anti- Hack and Ban Dodging System

Postby cyberpunk » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:38 am

palsgraf wrote:Ok, and without this system you just need a different BNET name and a new IP. Basically, it's much more of a hassle for map hackers to hack on our system and many more steps to dodge a ban -- they'll go to BGN or Cash.

Plus, the suspicious subnet alert would help us track down dodgers as soon as they register on our forum.
KISS or they will play in other community.
Do not trust in subnet, like I said before you can dodge it aswell.
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Re: Anti- Hack and Ban Dodging System

Postby Palsgraf » Thu Apr 25, 2013 2:16 pm

Agreements wrote:Would be easier just to make a client like others leagues uses to register harddrive serial number etc. Dota-licious has a simular system.

How is that easier than just requiring account validation on 2 or 3 auto-hosted bots? As I said above, there are already 1197 validated accounts and ~4000 forum users. Once you're registered on the forum it's an easy step to validate.
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Re: Anti- Hack and Ban Dodging System

Postby supersexyy » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:47 pm

Pals your suggestion seems wrong on 2 levels.

1. It will attract less people to ent bots (who the hell wants to sign up?)
2. It doesn't stop the map hackers, it takes about 5 minutes to make a new account.
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Re: Anti- Hack and Ban Dodging System

Postby uakf.b » Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:17 pm

1 minute*
dWFrZi5i -- 'cause I'm cool like Agreements

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Re: Anti- Hack and Ban Dodging System

Postby NutzSucksHard » Thu Apr 25, 2013 9:34 pm

Would be easier just to make a client like others leagues uses to register harddrive serial number etc. Dota-licious has a simular system.

Why not? Can we uakf? I'am for any 'damn' solution for kill the ban dodger!


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