New LOD mode

[TrueLies]

Hi,

I posted this suggestion yesterdays but I suppose it got lost because of hack, so I'll post it again.
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Is it possible to add new LOD bot with "mirror draft" mode, just change from -sds6bod2fn to -mds6bod2fn?

Personally I would like to have balance and fairness in LOD as much as possible which MD can offer.
Main difference between the two is that SD mode gives each player 20ish random heroes from the whole hero pool while in MD mode hero pool is spread over 5 players, meaning there will be no hero duplicates/overlaps.

Besides this both teams will get same drafts, everything blue gets pink will get, teal and gray will get the same heroes and so on.

It would be nice if you can give this mode a shot and if players show little interest you can always shut it down.
Regards

[Burnt]

Sounds interesting. You get to guess enemy's picks and try to counter pick

However, in the current mode when you see rearm phantasm you don't necessarily pick it.
In the mirror mode, when you see enemy has rearm phantasm and you're afraid of losing the game. You pick it too. Then the game would be illusion war and truly ruined. Lol

[Lord-Miles]

Well i personally would like to play mirror draft also , been suggesting that couple of times before but were rejected.

[WORLD_DETROYER]

Sounds interesting. You get to guess enemy's picks and try to counter pick

However, in the current mode when you see rearm phantasm you don't necessarily pick it.
In the mirror mode, when you see enemy has rearm phantasm and you're afraid of losing the game. You pick it too. Then the game would be illusion war and truly ruined. Lol

can add ss See Skills, allows you to see the enemy skills while drafting as well, to the current mode if u want that.

[Sylvanas]

I don't like the mirror idea. Dota can't have the same heroes in both teams, same draft in both teams shouldn't happen for the same reason. While you can go several paths out of any given draft, each one tends to have a "main" general pathway to take advantage of, which would lead to many near copies across the 2 teams. Maybe a bit more competitive, but a lot more boring as well.

Being able to see the other team's taverns (not actual picks) is a good idea however. Being able to spot the really ugly builds in advance and knowing you have to make something that can at least endure them if not counter them would make some games more interesting. No one wants to be the agi morphed haunt hero against a team full of global nukes.

This is only partially related, but I also think the previous mode without the instant jungle creeps was better. Junglers don't need the extra exp and I miss the little all out level 1 skirmishes over runes.

[CheW]

Or we can do AP with single skill per team then you know for sure what the enemy team has available

[TrueLies]

@Sylvanas
what do you mean by this:
"Dota can't have the same heroes in both teams, same draft in both teams shouldn't happen for the same reason."

Technically it can. I started playing Lod with MD mode and it was much better experience than current SD mode. I'm tired of wining/loosing games because one team got lucky and overdrafted the other. Even more tired of dealing with multiple BTs, Reincs, MCs, Haunts, Relocates and so on.
MD mode will solve that since it prevents heroes from overlapping .

I bet 95% players here never played any other mod than current one and when one team crushes the other they usually say this is lod, it's suppose to be that way.
It fucking isn't, it's mod that is based on luck, almost like rolling the dice and who gets higher numbers wins the game.

Anyway, you don't have to like this mod nor do I expect everyone to like it, that is why I'm suggesting a new bot not a replacement of the mod. If you prefer SD mode go ahead and join it otherwise join MD bot.

Regards

[Lord-Miles]

Well since i started to play lod ages ago on garena platform it were mirror draft , as i said already mirror draft is better for sure , but as truelies said prob 95% of the players now never played a mirror games.

[Sylvanas]

@Sylvanas
what do you mean by this:
"Dota can't have the same heroes in both teams, same draft in both teams shouldn't happen for the same reason."

I thought it was clear. In regular dota, you can't have both teams use the same hero. Mirrored drafts would cause many nearly identical heroes appearing in both teams, since most drafts contain a certain general setup that's objectively the most optimal choice and most decent players would be expected to pick them.

Honestly, for the "make a hero out of the near-infinity of options" game that lod is supposed to be, it actually lacks a lot of variety. In every game, people mostly just try to recreate a handful of ideal builds as well as they can. Mc, rearm ___, relocate ball, 1 hit, impetus, duel, call+damage return tank, haunt, pa blink physical damage, ranged eshift dance, etc. There might be an infinity of skill combinations, but not that many ways to combine them effectively. Sure, some drafts are stronger than others, but I think it's more interesting to see different types of good heroes in each team than the same ones on both of them.

[Wall]

The game mode is fine imo.
The only thing I would change is the fn shit, although it really doesn't matter. People forget this is only a pub game, like it really is just for fun in the end. Would love to see a bit more competitiveness and teamwork instead of having 4 weak carries and 1 strong carry in the same team instead of people building good supports to compensate for that one carry who will get you the win. Not enough people willing to take the backseat and take a hit to there stats (myself included), but hey in the end it's a damn pub game, what do you expect hahaha!..

P.S: Would love to have a bot that implements the ARDM mode just because its so random and would be so cool haha.

[CheW]

@Sylvanas
what do you mean by this:
"Dota can't have the same heroes in both teams, same draft in both teams shouldn't happen for the same reason."

I thought it was clear. In regular dota, you can't have both teams use the same hero. Mirrored drafts would cause many nearly identical heroes appearing in both teams, since most drafts contain a certain general setup that's objectively the most optimal choice and most decent players would be expected to pick them.

But if you have say rearm phantasm and rearm echo slam, you can choose to take phantasm to try and out play the other rearm phantasm, or echo slam to completely counter the rearm phantasm. There are lots of viable builds that most people don't go and they pick some semi carry that ends up being garbage. Just people are afraid of thinking about new builds or trying new things.

[TrueLies]

I thought it was clear. In regular dota, you can't have both teams use the same hero. Mirrored drafts would cause many nearly identical heroes appearing in both teams, since most drafts contain a certain general setup that's objectively the most optimal choice and most decent players would be expected to pick them.

Aren't we seeing the same right now? Every game you have to deal with builds that are alike and yes, the same will happen in MD mode.
But just because two players have same draft it doesn't mean they will pick the same spells.

Honestly, for the "make a hero out of the near-infinity of options" game that lod is supposed to be, it actually lacks a lot of variety. In every game, people mostly just try to recreate a handful of ideal builds as well as they can.

I agree but when you have elo and stats people are afraid to experiment and try new stuff. And when they do others immediately !sl them and call noobs for not picking rearm+phanta.

The only thing I would change is the fn shit, although it really doesn't matter.

Wanted to include "fn" in the MD mode as well as "ls" (Limit Skills) but feared it would be to much of a change which would end up people disliking the mode right away.

P.S: Would love to have a bot that implements the ARDM mode just because its so random and would be so cool haha.

ARDM is fun but 1 in 4 games end up in fatal error. Beside this it heavily relies on items since your spells often don't have any synergy. Overall it's a fun mode to play once in a while to break routine.


In my opinion MD mode will provide more different builds than SD because hero pool will be spread over 5 players leaving you with the drafts you usually don't get thus forcing you to pick stuff you usually don't.

[aRt)Y]

In regards to adding another bot, that suggestion is declined.

LoD will never be fair and balanced, regardless of the mode.

[TrueLies]

LoD will never be fair and balanced, regardless of the mode.

Yea, Lod might never be balanced, it will always be work in progress. That is why people report bugs and op stuff on official Lod forum.

But you are wrong about being fair, I've played Mirror draft mode for 2 year and I know the difference between the two.

In each game you role the dice and you might end up with good or bad draft, that's the way it is, and all the heroes your team gets other team will get exactly the same thus giving both teams equal opportunity.

If that is not fair I don't know what is.

[Lord-Miles]

LoD will never be fair and balanced, regardless of the mode.

Yea, Lod might never be balanced, it will always be work in progress. That is why people report bugs and op stuff on official Lod forum.

But you are wrong about being fair, I've played Mirror draft mode for 2 year and I know the difference between the two.

In each game you role the dice and you might end up with good or bad draft, that's the way it is, and all the heroes your team gets other team will get exactly the same thus giving both teams equal opportunity.

If that is not fair I don't know what is.

Totally agree with that , we are old lod players since garena times and there we played only at mirror draft , so we got clue about enemy draft and trying to go more hard or counter it , thats the mirror draft , better mirror picks won the game. Coz for example there is thing like one mirror is Mc Wrath but other picking strong carry so the mc wrath could be out drafted and many more combos.