Revert lod

[Burnt]

I don't really care about sd (fully random) or md (involving more strategies in skill picks). The 2 modes don't change game play by too much.

"FN" should stay tho. It gives all 5 heroes (not only the jungler) a bit more exp before creeps spawn. Skillfully utilizing FN will give you a bit advantage early game. Also it introduces techniques such as tp to leech enemies' exp with invis. This is something special about lod that regular dota doesn't have.

[Sylvanas]

I don't really care about sd (fully random) or md (involving more strategies in skill picks). The 2 modes don't change game play by too much.

"FN" should stay tho. It gives all 5 heroes (not only the jungler) a bit more exp before creeps spawn. Skillfully utilizing FN will give you a bit advantage early game. Also it introduces techniques such as tp to leech enemies' exp with invis. This is something special about lod that regular dota doesn't have.

I was thinking of your typical foaming at the mouth helix jungler that tps to t2 tower right away to get a headstart of like 1 level and a half and lashes out at anyone who tries to come close. I just don't see the justification for it. I preferred the little hero skirmishes over runes, where everyone starts on equal footing and then does their thing. Ultimately, if the majority wants those modes, so be it, but I don't think it's the case, or at least I know it wasn't established before the changes were done.

[TazDingo]

Hello, this is YouBeJammin on us@east asking the age old question. Why MD?

Before we start, we like to thank ent and its community for letting lod to live on in our hearts and memories and all admin staff available to the project in maintaining it and keeping it to grow, we thank you

the Whole point of lod is to use specific builds that is unknown to the enemy team to try and outsmart, outgank, and outplay your opponent and then get the items needed to counter said builds to win the game. as in dota where communication of skills/fights is important to figure the teams composition/strategy, this is the same case for lod always and can never change without a few exceptions.

Now you can argue that MD eliminates or weakens the chance to be steamrolled by 4 MC on 1 team or 4 wolf haunts on another team and i understand that it would in some way cover that, but there are several drawbacks that affect it as well such as

1. far less originality
2. the most/more stacked team almost always wins now
3. specific counters to builds that should hence not be known to the enemy regardless
4. forced builds for players who do not want a specific build but must take knowing the enemy will

Here are a few suggestions on fixing this issue once and for all and in my opinions, are/is the best option for everyone
1. return to sd, the format works for everyone, it creates a true lod experience, and promotes that not knowing feeling of trying to outplay your opponent.
2. give your player base options in game? before ent became the prime location for lod there was clan obama, clan phoo, clan sun and (clan i forgot that i also was part of but forgot its name lol), and all clans gave voting options in game to its player base, one for dm, sd, md and ap. i suggest this would work for your player base as well
3.Extended League mode allows for pink and blue to remove 3 heroes from the fold which could eliminate all the lame builds that exist in lod while also allowing for more strategic planning since it goes with the first team picking two heroes, the other team picks two heroes (1-2-2-2-2-1). Each player has 20 seconds to pick a hero, otherwise one is randomed for him/her. The team which has the first pick is random. Can only pick from your side, Sentinel or Scourge, like Normal Mode.
4.Captains Mode/RD with a same result as above in 3.
5. if your feeling funky, reverse mode. The Sentinel's players pick the Scourge's team and the Scourge's players pick the Sentinel's team. Needs an even amount of players on each team to be activated. could create lots of plays for people
6.Super Creeps is more for nostalgia and i would want in the game because it creates more team fights and any pushing build that much better but that is just me
7. One Ability Draft. this one i thinks works the best with sd format, where one player picks one skill per team and blocks that skill out for the rest. this would enable better team play, better cooperation, (unless your teammate is a dick) create originality, solve MD mode to its core (sure might limit options but that is what md is doing anyways ), and just all around more interesting builds to be used

I know this is a wall of text and requires some reading, but its truly to better the bot that we all love, and to the players that love playing it . thank you again for your support,
YouBeJammin (JamJam, YBJ for short)

[aRt)Y]

@TazDingo I merged your topic with the suggestion.

[nymus93]

I finally found the topic, i totally agree with Sylvanas, this is my second post on forum, i usually just read and not write.

I'm here only to share my personal opinion on the subject, after playing 2-3 games with the new md mod, i stopped playing lod. This mod takes away the all fun from the game which the element of surprise, what makes lod unique is the fact that there'll be a unknown combinations and skills. Now lod is without spices has a plain taste.

If the balance is the issue here, i ask people why there is no autabalance teams ? most of the time pros stack in a team and play a game where they have fun with noobs. 1500 elo vs 1000 elo is nowhere balance, giving the same taverns is only going to help the stacked teams. There could be vote maybe for those who wanna play md, or another lod bot stressing on "md". This way we can actually see the percentage of players who enjoy md / non-md(sd).

Now even if teams are not that stacked and rather balanced, for example i have 2 noobs in my team, and they get the imba/strong drafts in their taverns but its either they dont go with that or play very inefficiently as for the opponent who has the same draft for example phantasm/rearm or ball/relo you can imagine there is no such a thing as balance.

I think balance is not something to be seeked in Lod games in general.

-Chew, you say md balances the game by reducing it all to skill, but really ? 1500 elo gets ball/relo 1000 elo gets bal/relo how is this balance ? why not give everyone the same drafts ? I don't see balance here in practice, only in theory in very specific games. Even if thats the case i rather loose from the very beginning instead of always having the same drafts. Any player whos elo is over 1000 gets the 90 percent exact skill combinations given the same taverns.

[Happiness]

hopefully more players come into forums to share their opinion about this new "funky more balanced mode" ruining the real fun of lod :p anyways ill be playing pubg meanwhile

[CheW]

I wouldn't mind trying out SD One Skill, maybe with a larger draft pool, and super creeps. I just thought going from SD to MD would be a less drastic change and I feel like 90% of people wouldn't notice if the name wasn't changed, as the change is less drastic than some people make it out to be. After playing a few games of MD I really enjoy the fact that you can see if there are going to be game breaking drafts and if there aren't you can go get more of the fun builds that aren't seen as much

[TazDingo]

I honestly dont like md only because im forced to pick builds that i dont really want yet get called out on anyways. i dont really care for boring builds and is why i add my own style to it, that's why lod is there. sometimes it fails, sometimes it works, but it cant work knowing that the build will counter it 100%

SD, one skill draft would solve all md issues to its core, and because everyone has their own opinion and would not agree, why not just give people voting options in game? its very easy to setup, it creates more involvement to everyone because people actively look for the game they want and it gets people to play something new and different while still keeping lod fresh.

Thank you arty for the move, didn't eve think to put the post in here, thank you again

[TrueLies]

Instead arguing for or against MD mode can ENT admin just implement voting system in lobby? People would vote for prefered mode and one with the most votes would be selected. If you don't like it you can always leave and join next game. Simple solution where both sides win.

[aRt)Y]

Instead arguing for or against MD mode can ENT admin just implement voting system in lobby? People would vote for prefered mode and one with the most votes would be selected. If you don't like it you can always leave and join next game. Simple solution where both sides win.

Except that we have to choose a default mode.

I am fine with implementing voting in lobby for modes anyway.

[Burnt]

Go vote for the default mode you prefer noobs

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=112627

[TrueLies]

I am fine with implementing voting in lobby for modes anyway.

Nice to hear that, can't wait.

Except that we have to choose a default mode.

Although I prefer MD mode you can put SD as default. People are used to it and it has been played since the beginning.

[CheW]

@trulies

What are the things you like about MD more than SD?

[Sylvanas]

Go vote for the default mode you prefer noobs

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=112627

With how few people frequent this board, a poll like this is so easy to manipulate. I thought of adding one here but decided not to because of it. Voted anyway.

[Burnt]

Go vote for the default mode you prefer noobs

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=112627

With how few people frequent this board, a poll like this is so easy to manipulate. I thought of adding one here but decided not to because of it. Voted anyway.

I've heard more voice against MD in this thread tho. That said, this poll is slightly in your favor.

Plus we will get options to choose the other mode in lobby. The poll would speed up the process imo.