DotA Map Change - v6.85ne Series

[xSAINTx1]

What would it take to remove the other hero models and go back to the original ones @Tufuuu ? Do you possess the power to change this? Is 6.85ne10 not your map?

I may have claimed that it affects some aspects of play based on my resistance towards the dogshit change (sniper, ember spirit look so bad) with/without proof.

If possible, it would be great for someone to post an in-depth guide on how to make one folder to play on ENT as well as bnet's patch. The pubs hosted on ENT are superior in my opinion regardless of map, and they fill quite quickly as long as teams are not complete stomps and it's not 3 am.

I like to play a match or two to warm up before playing a sweaty inhouse game, so being able to play on both would be great. Last time I tried to copy folders, in may/early June I was unable to play on both.

[PrincessIce]

I voted for the change. At first I totally hated the new version when BK and those other trash bots hosted it. This is mostly likely because it's a 15 year old game, and if you still play it you probably have psychological tendencies of not liking change. Yes the skins are whack, and there are new items I don't use or know about, and the item purchase locations are different.... but I think it is more balanced and less people pick techies which is a plus. There are also some small hero changes I appreciate, like SA having the indicator when he is invisible and the big number of blink strikes left.

I don't think people leave ENT because of the version of MAP... it was probably mostly because it wasn't hosted on BNET anymore, like myself, I just stopped playing. Most players probably don't even know about ENT Connect. Just because the map version is changed, people aren't gonna stop playing. But the idea of getting rid of the AREM map to test out hosting the new version seems like a good compromise. Honeestly, people will probably just join the one with more people it. It doesn't hurt to do this one bit.

In conclusion, don't be scared of change, evolution is nature's way and no need to stick with something when it is in decline... if ENT doesn't adapt, it will actually probably lose MORE players to bnet. If people quit, its not because of the map but because they have something better to do with their lives.

VOTE FOR REMOVABLE OF AREM BOT AND ADD NEW MAP

[pinheadlarry]

It's like not wanting LED lights because you like lighting up candles.

See, you love metaphors too.

Players like you have largely contributed to a declining player-base on ENT so I don't think you're in any position to start acting noble when you've damaged the community already.

Nahhh. Kar definitely ruined his share of games, but he did not purposely berate ENT's community like you. Nor did he ever try to siphon off ENT's player base. The fact you clearly stated you don't play on ENT anymore essentially invalidates your vote. You are essentially Lance Armstrong voting on the Tour De France's drug screening procedures.

if ENT doesn't adapt, it will actually probably lose MORE players to bnet.

This is actually completely backwards. Old man Larry has been with ENT and BNET for awhile and can offer his timeless insight. Count back many moons ago when blizzard decided to push out garbage updates that forced ENT to recede into the shadows of a private server. Remember how dota entered its darkest patch in history as the updates broke the game. Our great savior Hermit courageously restored 6.83d's former glory with additional bug fixes. We have since remained on the SAME VERSION OF WC3. When reforged comes out, there will undoubtedly be a HUGE amount of updates rolled out. It is practically inevitable that some of these updates will brick old maps. If new dota Maps are made, they will be for BNET and will not be compatible with our version. Therefore if we make the switch, we actually stand to lose players to BNET since players will follow the update stream. ENT and BNET are likely not going to be "compatible" when reforged comes out. Therefore, ENT will be the time capsule of the lost glory days of BNET and its "discontinued" maps (Dota 6.83d, customs, etc). BNET will have new incompatible maps. Therefore "nostalgia" is literally the only thing that will maintain ENT and us Candle lovers (copywrite 2019 Banter Boi) will be the butter to ENT's bread.

[KingKar]

Gonna have to agree with pinhead here^, He makes a good point. When you update to 6.85, you'll soon need to update that version, and then another update, etc. The updates wont stop, and It wont feel like the same game. The vanilla version were used to will be over. It will be a copy of RGC and turn into dota 1.5. ENT is Good now because 6.83d is one of the best maps to ever be hosted. Its Been working great over the past 4 years, plus We already had H3rmit fixed the Real problem with 6.83c.

On the day astros resigned he wanted everyone to quit playing ent and move to rgc. If u change this map it will split the player base in half. He doesn't even play on ENT! So why would they care about the vote? Think about it. When shit hits the fan, these guys will be the first to leech it.

[Astros]

Gonna have to agree with pinhead here^, He makes a good point. When you update to 6.85, you'll soon need to update that version, and then another update, etc. The updates wont stop, and It wont feel like the same game. The vanilla version were used to will be over. It will be a copy of RGC and turn into dota 1.5. ENT is Good now because 6.83d is one of the best maps to ever be hosted. Its Been working great over the past 4 years, plus We already had H3rmit fixed the Real problem with 6.83c.

On the day astros resigned he wanted everyone to quit playing ent and move to rgc. If u change this map it will split the player base in half. He doesn't even play on ENT! So why would they care about the vote? Think about it. When shit hits the fan, these guys will be the first to leech it.

By your logic, why did ENT not update the DotA versions when newer versions came out? Hint: Because this has nothing to do with what you are suggesting but more-so the fact that 6.83d is simply far below the standards of the newer versions both on a competitive and QOL experience. This slippery slope fallacy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope) is a fear-mongering attack from you with no basis. ENT will update the map based on the community's approval and thus far, it doesn't seem like there is even a DotA community active enough to actually debate this so of course it would be denied once again and you guys will be stuck playing a dead version while every other community moves on. 6.83d is one of the best maps when it was still current. It's not even close to being one of the best maps right now. A game still working 4 years later is not a good argument as to why it shouldn't be improved.

1) I never said people should quit playing ENT. I said RGC is better and quite frankly, that is true due to the declining player base in ENT and the fact that 6.83d is outdated.
2) I don't care which version ENT hosts and wouldn't be playing it regardless. I think the upper moderators have fallen asleep while other communities have kept things moving forward. Seems like ENT ultimately gave up when bots were removed from BNET so the inevitable decline happens eventually. I just find it laughable that players who were and are notoriously trolls/bad players who no one enjoys playing with are trying to muster up failed responses with zero facts.
3) Leech what? Dude, everyone hated you. The only reason moderators let you back in was because they were sick and tired of having to constantly check if you dodge banned or not. Stop acting like you've done positive things to help ENT when really, you might possibly be the most annoying individual ENT has dealt with.

No point in even illustrating my points further. Unfortunate for Merex who has tried twice but doesn't seem likely that it would be updated. Just a bunch of nostalgic low level players on 6.83d who still don't know how to counter techies.

[epicdeath]

@xSAINTx1 For me I just downloaded two instances of WC3 from blizzard's site. I used the patch revert (found on the wc3 connect topic) on one download and patched the other for bnet.

[KingKar]

By your logic, why did ENT not update the DotA versions when newer versions came out?

Yes Ent did make updates.. ENT used to update Dota up until 6.83. Icefrogs final map on ENT was 6.83. Hermit fixed some glitch and Bugs to 6.83d, He never change the gameplay. The last time we tried this ent pub chose Icefrogs (6.83) map. Its just waste of time to argue to you, your facts are wrong.

Right now, the people against it two biggest concerns are:
-Cosmetic changes
-Nostalgia

Not going to bother responding to u again. Most of your post are false. You were never real tier 1 player zam, You would avg 1600elo if you still played. Most ppl that quit ent moved on to dota 2 or just stopped playing . You only trash on ent since you left.

[PrincessIce]

what is there to argue about?
Just host ne11 on the arem bot no one uses.
Then we have both games up.
And we can discuss after seeing the analytics of games played

[Jazzy3113]

Please do this! It would breath some fresh air into our game.

On an unrelated note, does anyone know why the ar games have died and people only play ap now? Have the ar player gone to another gaming community?

[phuphew]

Many people that were voting here don't even play on ent anymore.

I think this change would make me recover from this game too.
I'd also advise you to change the current arem bot to the new apem version and you'll get real user feedback instead of just 30 people that voted here.

[Merex]

Hello,

First off, thank you all for your feedback regarding this suggestion. I do appreciate that despite our current numbers that the DotA community can still stand strong and address a change and how they feel it on, regardless whom you are and what history you have here there's something all of you equally can agree on, alongside myself, and that is we like DotA. And at the end of the day, regardless of 6.83d or 6.85ne11 that it'll still be DotA.

I see a number of you are suggesting to have bot 38, also known as the DotA arem bot, switched to the newest map but I'd like to say that I feel this would not accomplish much. I do completely understand the idea behind it, especially with arem hitting less and less popularity as time goes on, but the overall map quality from v6.83d to v6.85ne11 is quite large I'd say and to have a potential community split in this day and age as result of this would not in the DotA communities best interest.

That said, I do not see it happening. And if I have to be honest, this change would best be felt if it was given to the entirety of the dota community and the only real way to accomplish this is by having the map hit the main bot and seeing how people feel on it. Like I've said before, it's not up to me though it is up to you guys.

Overall, I see the majority of the poll being to yes however with a number of no's in there as-well so the poll will remain open as it's only barely hitting 2 weeks and hopefully to have an in-game announcement on bot 11 in regards to this change proposal so those whom don't visit the forum often can have an opportunity to vote/comment on it.

[PrincessIce]

So this is not a democracy since the voters have spoken to change and ENT does not comply.

AREM isn't dead, its just dead in ENT. I play arem and sdem often on bnet. I don't see WHY it is difficult to change the arem bot to the apem for the new map. ::MEGA SHRUG::

Also, version 12 is out now, and it addresses the new skins for the heroes. you have the option of choosing classic or new skin.

[Astros]

So this is not a democracy since the voters have spoken to change and ENT does not comply.

AREM isn't dead, its just dead in ENT. I play arem and sdem often on bnet. I don't see WHY it is difficult to change the arem bot to the apem for the new map. ::MEGA SHRUG::

Also, version 12 is out now, and it addresses the new skins for the heroes. you have the option of choosing classic or new skin.

Unfortunately, the admins of the site are basically inactive or non-functional and the mods who are currently active cannot change or implement something like this on their own. Any ENT updates are likely not going to happen unless there is enough support and there doesn't seem to be one for this new map despite the obvious functional and QOL updates that wouldn't affect the integrity of DotA but would improve the experience for everyone. There would need to be a wider majority of polling results for this to actually pass because ENT doesn't want to frustrate the players who don't want the new map (despite them likely having never played it or their ultimate reasoning being they are too nostalgic.) Really unfortunate and I'd wonder how many of the people who voted no are actually doing so under different aliases. None of them have provided solid reasoning as to why it shouldn't be updated so it's a shame that ENT will still be behind every other platform and then when reforged comes out, these players who voted no will jump ship and be playing the newer version anyways, lol.

[Tufuuu]

I am not an active (playing) part of this community and therefore I am not very concerned wether or not you host 6.85ne12a. Yet I'd like to give you some reasons why you should leave 6.83d:
First and foremost there is absolutely noone who maintains, i.e. fixes bugs, 6.83d. There are really horrible ones like Linken's sphere bug, Urn / Napalm abuse, Meepo can buyback without getting the gold penalty. Moreover, as everyone knows, Blizzard's recent patches produced some even worse bugs, some of them cause crashes (ok, maybe not on the patch you are playing on). Two of them are: You can't share to brown, Flamebreak missile is invisible (cause Blizzarrd moved / removed a required texture). And I think there are many more.
Dracol1ch's map contained tons of bugs which are mostly all fixed now and also all known bugs caused by Blizzard (except 1, but Im working on it).

Moreover, solo pub stomping by picking a hero like Meepo, LC, Slark etc. is not that easy anymore in 6.85. These heroes are still strong but they have been balanced nicely by Dracol1ch. There were other op heroes in 6.85 like Invoker, Alchi, Tiny and Bristle, which my community and I balanced very nicely imo and also many others confrimed this. Recently(ne12) I even decided to balance Arc a bit (his clone can't carry divine nor gem anymore) after popular demand. So in 6.85 even in pubgames more teamplay is now required. The current pubstomper heroes imo are Tuskarr and Ursa (only in early/mid game though), but trust me, this can't be compared to Meepo/LC/slark in 6.83.
Dracol1ch did also a great job on the new items which give a greater variety on gameplay and they also emphasize once more the need of teamplay. Here a quick overview for those of you who still struggle with the new items:

- Glimmer Cape: Amazing team and supporter item. Gives you 45% (!!!) magic resistance and you can make a unit of your choice invisible for 6 seconds.
I had once a lion who constantly died cause of Zeus double ulti(refresher), I told him to buy glimmercape, he was so happy Also great in conjunction with Blink dagger.
- Silver Edge: Lothar's is a bad lategame item and easily countered. Silver Edge (Lothar's edgee + sange + recipe) not only gives you windwalk but it also give you the ability to disable passives for a couple of seconds like Void's / Mortred's evasion, Tiny's annyoing stun passive etc. which makes it also viable for lategame.
- Moonshard: 2 Hyperstones. Gives you an immense attackspeed boost, can be consumed for a permanent (!) attack speed boost. Many use it on tiny, which makes sense ofc. But also any other right click dps hero could carry it in lategame. Especially in pubs I often decide to sell my mask of madness, consume a Moonshard instead and buy a satanic.
-Octarine Core: This item is amazing, it provides so many possibilities on gameplay strategies. It gives you a reduced cooldown on spells + lifesteal from spell damage that you deal. It's a must on Invoker & Bristle. Naga, Axe, Engima, Jakiro and many other heroes should consider this item (especially in conjunction with Radiance)
- Enchanted Mango: Gives you +1 regeneration and if you consume it you get instant 150 (dunno if thats the exact value) mana restored. I love this item ! Very nice on heroes in early game who lack of mana and who have important spells for early kills (stun) like leoric, nessaj, earthshaker etc. I highly recommend to get 1-2 mangos in the early game !
- Guardian Greaves: What an incredible supporter item ! Meka+Manaboots+Recipe. It's a little expenisve but it gives you a nice aura: When allied heroes drop below a certain hp percentage they get + 15 armor and +15 health regen. Meanwhile in Battle.net I see people buying this item quite frequently. Can be used by any supporting hero (Omni) but personally I also sometimes bought it on Axe.
- Solar Crest and Lotus Orb aren't bought very often because their value isn't fully recognized yet. I personally like to get Lotus Orb which casts back most single target spells to their casters. You can use that buff like linkens sphere on yourself or on an ally. Sometimes there are really funny moments with this. Once I met a Lucifer who doomed me while I had Lotus Orb activated. He shouted in all chat "wtf, why am I doomed????" I laughed so hard xd. Solar Crest is commonly used on gankers (gives a chosen unit armor if ally or reduces armor + blind if enemy) like LC, Venge or Tuskarr.

I also made some videos for my old community about the new items:

Spoiler!

Lotus Orb:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XOfQFTwEU3g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVpRtoAseDc

Octarine Core:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSomj_fEP28

Well, and then there are more heroes who can carry Aghanim's: Leoric (allies still live 7 seconds when they die, so exciting imo), LC (duel lasts until someone dies), Alche(can use it to give someone else improved Ulti), Nerubian Assassin (try it on him, it's so great!) etc ... .
There is so much more to mention:
- Naix can swallow allied heroes. Nice side effect: when they cast a channeling spell (like Rylai / Engima / witchdoctor's ulti) they will still continue casting it while Naix is carrying them around => this is crazy and fun !!!
- the -cam option is amazing, meanwhile people complain on 6.83 or 6.78 when they notice they can use -cam
- one right click on rune is enough to store it in bottle, even if the bottle has some charges left => I got so used to it, I am cursing whenever I play in 6.83d
- one click buy for items, you can buy a luxury item just by buying the recipe and double clicking on it
.... etc etc.

6.83d was a good map back in its days. But like any other piece of software it lacks of maintenance (bugged) and urgently needed balance changes. 99% of the players in Bnet prefer playing 6.85ne, especially with the new -skin option. If you don't like the new models you can continue now playing on the old ones. I am also glad that the FBG community is growing which even streams some of its games and some of them even report me bugs.
This will ensure that 6.85 has still a bright future, attract more players, no matter if you are a pub gamer (where you can play -em games) or if you are a (semi-) pro while 6.83 is actually dead (and should stay dead )

[KingKar]

6.83d was a good map back in its days. But like any other piece of software it lacks of maintenance (bugged) and urgently needed balance changes. 99% of the players in Bnet prefer playing 6.85ne, especially with the new -skin option. If you don't like the new models you can continue now playing on the old ones. I am also glad that the FBG community is growing which even streams some of its games and some of them even report me bugs.
This will ensure that 6.85 has still a bright future, attract more players, no matter if you are a pub gamer (where you can play -em games) or if you are a (semi-) pro while 6.83 is actually dead (and should stay dead )

Incase some players forgot, here was the last poll results from 6.83 to 6.85 :
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=93349

as you can see 3 years ago over 90% voted to keep this map. It was a disaster when ENT tried to change it. Now the number is less ,
over 40% voters still supported 6.83. Theres nowhere near enough players voting against it. Im also curious to know how many players voted yes are not active ENT users. It was a great poll thanks for merex, we got to see real feedback. We dont see a majority decision to change the map.