ELO system and bots

[IAmLegion]

Hello,

I've noticed that ENT has a problem with ban dodgers. Also, that you don't like giving out harsh punishments as you're afraid it will diminish your playerbase. I've also seen some of your better players complain about having to play with utter noobs in every single game (allthough in my eyes that only means they aren't good enough to carry them).

Here's a couple of solutions I picked up along the way that you guys should REALLY consider implementing.

ELO system: Instead of using your current elo system, which is bad and not very rewarding for players above 1600 elo. Try using the old dota-league system. Instead of having ELO, you have points. +5 for a win, -5 for a loss. If you have 1 leaver on your team, you get -3 instead of -5 (only if you lose ofc), if you have 2 leavers or more on your team, you get 0 points deducted from your score if you lose.

This way, even if you're #1, you can keep on climbing. The only positive thing with the ELO system currently implemented in ENT, is that everyone has a chance at becoming #1 with time. Unlikely, but possible.

Anyways, with this system, you won't have a problem with people smurfing to ruin games, ban dodging etc. The gain in this elo system is through time and dedication. Dropping from 1600 "elo" with this system means that you're throwing away a 120 positive win ratio, which will make people think twice about hacking etc. Also, if they hack, their user on entgaming.net will be removed, and they'll have to apply again.

Not gonna go into too much detail with this system unless you all think it's a good idea. Which it is. It's a far superior system to what's being used to day, and not very hard to implement seeing that the only person required is a webdesigner and c++ scripter.

Bots: People complaining about having to play with noobs is completely natural. I can understand that having to play with 4 people you can't rely on at all is frustrating. I suggest that you change the -ap euro bot to a HR bot.
This will give all the Eu players a chance to actually play for improvement and just have fun and relax. Sure, some will still flame and whine and bitch, but at least they can't blame noobs. I see that alot of players with a 30-50cs average plays on the AP bot. I urge you to give the more experienced players on Eu a place to play proper games. Bumping the ELO requirement up to 1200 shouldn't be a problem as I see alot of players allready are around that. Sadly, there are also 700 elo bobs joining.



Some easy fixes for you, and these things will seriously improve the quality of the games on ENT. Also, hopefully create some less work for the forum admins that have to go through 900 reports per day

[Fangorn]

Two great suggestions.

Setting the requirement to 1200elo shouldn't be too hard, and it will increase the enjoyment for every decent player on the ap euro bot. The first week the requirement could be 1100 elo, and then eventually greadually raise it, just to get it going.

[uakf.b]

ELO - we considered it in the past but the system proposed was too complicated. Simple score +/- one is much simpler though, I think it's currently in effect for EDL at the moment. But this removes any incentive of playing auto-balanced bots.

HR - neither the original (ELO requirement) nor the new (stay percentage and # wins requirement) HR bots are at all popular. Why do you think they'd be played in Europe?

[IAmLegion]

ELO - we considered it in the past but the system proposed was too complicated. Simple score +/- one is much simpler though, I think it's currently in effect for EDL at the moment. But this removes any incentive of playing auto-balanced bots.

HR - neither the original (ELO requirement) nor the new (stay percentage and # wins requirement) HR bots are at all popular. Why do you think they'd be played in Europe?

I think that if instead of calling it a "HR" bot, and simply switch the requirement on the AP bot to 1200 elo, then that will be a success. We see the AP games filling up quite fast because players know that's where the big guns are. However, I think ENT players have an association with HR bots as being "slow going", and therefore won't join.

I agree to a certain degree. If you have +5 and -5, the gaps in points won't be as high as it is now, also forcing down at least a soft reset in stats. Right now, if a 2600 elo player join an auto balance bot, he will get teamed with 700 elo players and have an almost certain loss. I think players will be much more willing to risk a loss with a team that isn't optimal if they know they'll only lose 5 points instead of 40.

Isn't it possible to contact one of the old scripters from DL and borrow their system? I think they would be much obliged to know that they hours they spent creating it hasn't gone completely down the shitter and that some players are still interested in using it and appreciate the effort.

[EdgeOfChaos]

Having that ELO system will only promote stacking more than it already is promoted.

Also about ABAL and high elos, not necessarily true. Mittlebittle still played abal at 2300-2400 elo and he only got 3 or 4 losses out of hundreds of games.

[IAmLegion]

Having that ELO system will only promote stacking more than it already is promoted.

Also about ABAL and high elos, not necessarily true. Mittlebittle still played abal at 2300-2400 elo and he only got 3 or 4 losses out of hundreds of games.

Not if you use shuffle as a game mode

How could it hurt trying? Alot of things would get much simpler for you, and it would remove alot of the hackers as well as give everyone a chance at reaching for #1.

Imo, disregarding it because of it will promote stacking is a terrible argument as players stack in every game allready anyways.

[EdgeOfChaos]

People already stack, but those stacks gain like 1-2 elo if they really stack it hard. With this, it rewards getting all the skilled players on one side and smashing noobs, because you gain the same ELO doing that as you do playing fairly. But games that are won in the lobby are not fun at all.

Shuffle is bad because some people want to play with their friends online, not necessarily for stacking but just for fun.

[IAmLegion]

People already stack, but those stacks gain like 1-2 elo if they really stack it hard. With this, it rewards getting all the skilled players on one side and smashing noobs, because you gain the same ELO doing that as you do playing fairly. But games that are won in the lobby are not fun at all.

Shuffle is bad because some people want to play with their friends online, not necessarily for stacking but just for fun.

Use the same duo lock command that they had in NL then. The game was shuffled or on autobalance through the bot, but 2 players could always link and duo if they wanted.

Mate, you are seeing ALOT of problems with a solution to one of your biggest problems. Instead of being a negative nancy, try finding more solutions as to how this can be implemented successfully. You know this is what's best for ENT, the current ELO system is trash, and that's no big secret.

[EdgeOfChaos]

Okay, so you can link two players.. what if three want to play together? I play often with my brother and one of his friends, so we can't play together?

Also you can still stack with two players. How about SNSDYuri and Flowersnow link and pubstomp? That's obviously stacking and they would be rewarded as they gain +5 elo for every won game, and only lose 5 if they somehow lose.

I am seeing a lot of problems with this. In my opinion this would inflate one of our problems into a bigger problem. I am only being a "negative nancy" if you consider pointing out serious flaws in your suggestion to be being negative. If you don't want your suggestion examined and criticized, don't post it.

[BlackSpade]

We see the AP games filling up quite fast because players know that's where the big guns are..

Big LOL hope you're joking....
Big Guns playing EU bot games!! so legit...
you seem to over emphasis on creep kills and judge player based on number of creeps killed/deny.
you say you play dota for long time yet you don't seem to have gained much knowledge on the game, based on how you judge a player. When judging a player, you should know it's not just about numbers at the end of the game but how much contribution has a player has part taken towards his team, and how well a player understands the game situations and knowing how to adapt or know what needs to be done during game when situations happeneds (regardless of win or lost).

I also suggest that you shouldn't call people who are 700 elo "bobs" because to some others, players like your self are considered bobs and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't appreciated if someone called you a bob player. not everyone puts alot of time on this game and are causal gamers so ofc they aren't going to be very good at dota and even if you have put alot of time and effort to it, they might still be bad and for you to judge a player in a pub games is simply wasting your time!!
my advice is for you to just go play and try to have fun!!! open public games are meaningless anyways, so stop caring about stupid elo system and maybe you can get better at dota instead of bickering at others about "what you think, it's a problem" cuz what you think, really doesn't matter.

[IAmLegion]

We see the AP games filling up quite fast because players know that's where the big guns are..

Big LOL hope you're joking....
Big Guns playing EU bot games!! so legit...
you seem to over emphasis on creep kills and judge player based on number of creeps killed/deny.
you say you play dota for long time yet you don't seem to have gained much knowledge on the game, based on how you judge a player. When judging a player, you should know it's not just about numbers at the end of the game but how much contribution has a player has part taken towards his team, and how well a player understands the game situations and knowing how to adapt or know what needs to be done during game when situations happeneds (regardless of win or lost).

I also suggest that you shouldn't call people who are 700 elo "bobs" because to some others, players like your self are considered bobs and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't appreciated if someone called you a bob player. not everyone puts alot of time on this game and are causal gamers so ofc they aren't going to be very good at dota and even if you have put alot of time and effort to it, they might still be bad and for you to judge a player in a pub games is simply wasting your time!!
my advice is for you to just go play and try to have fun!!! open public games are meaningless anyways, so stop caring about stupid elo system and maybe you can get better at dota instead of bickering at others about "what you think, it's a problem" cuz what you think, really doesn't matter.

I completely agree. There are only trash left on DotA. As for you, you seem to know alot about my gameplay in regards to my opinion on cs and kda. It does matter, and thinking the opposite only makes you a fool. I agree, their contribution towards the game as a whole matters, but if you have 0-17-8 with 30cs, and you "tanked" for your team, does that make you a valuable part of the team? No. It does not. It means you were a shit tank and could have done alot better for yourself and your team if you only knew how to stay alive and farm abit to get better items.

Players like you annoy me to no avail. You see a few simple statements and you think you have analyzed my gameplay and my overall knowledge. Please stop taking your valium and wake up.

I might be rusty, but be certain that I would shred you in dota any day of the week. If you want to test that out, call me out any time you want. If not, take your spam elsewhere. This is a suggestion topic to increase the quality of the games on ENT and the quantity as well as giving the mods an easier job of handling maphackers and ban dodgers.

Have you done anything in that direction so far other than trying to fuck up my topics? No? Then fuck off.

[BlackSpade]

actually if player goes 0-17-8 and tanked team fight, making enemy to use most of the spells on the target than yes!! if player make enemy team use alot of ulties and nukes that made allies team to win the every team fights than he has done alot for the team.. stop being naive and think you know about competitive dota...
Why do i need to test you? are you special?? your attitude proves to me that your scumbag trashcan player that thinks your decent!! (maybe you're decent vs trashcan players) who knows
? anyways calm your tits, you dun hef to be med.

[IAmLegion]

actually if player goes 0-17-8 and tanked team fight, making enemy to use most of the spells on the target than yes!! if player make enemy team use alot of ulties and nukes that made allies team to win the every team fights than he has done alot for the team.. stop being naive and think you know about competitive dota...
Why do i need to test you? are you special?? your attitude proves to me that your scumbag trashcan player that thinks your decent!! (maybe you're decent vs trashcan players) who knows
? anyways calm your tits, you dun hef to be med.

I know nothing of competetive dota? Are you trying to make yourself look like a retard or does that come natural?
I play Pick league B in DL, IH for NL, hundreds of ACW for Mogg and B00B. Stop acting like you're a good player, the trash that is playing DotA right now aren't even good enough to lick the boots of the players that have now left the dota scene. Competetive dota my ass, the meta you're following now, I was a part of creating that. B00B was one of the first clans in the world to agressively ward the map and run tanks with ranged dps behind as well as supports to buy the shit the team needed instead of going 5 carries and noobing around like most did.

Please take your bullshit elsewhere, I've witnessed and played in the competetive scene while you were sucking on your moms tits and trying to not cry whilst teething. You wouldn't recognize a pro if he was bashing your face in...

edit// For the record, you imbecile, if a player goes 0-17, it means he died too fast and was simply a farming object. On the "competetive" scene as you call it, that doesn't even exist in DotA anymore, they would have rerouted AoE and nukes for the ranged dps and enemy nukers instead of blowing it all on a fucking noob that can't even farm up enough gold to get some hp and armor....

[uakf.b]

Can you post two separate suggestion topics for this? It's too confusing as is.

[IAmLegion]

Can you post two separate suggestion topics for this? It's too confusing as is.

Yes, I'll do it soon and link you to it once it's done.

I'll try finding some more information on the setups that were used as well.