Antistuck abuse on LTD 1v1 bot

[skillerinstinct]

@iightfyre

3. The brq and appeal section will get cluttered with work - remember that a LOT of people have the habit of using AS on their creeps. We are not talking about 5% of the community. I assume that 50% or more of pub players click AS on a regular basis.
[/b]

Are we still talking about the AS abuse in 1v1 at middle build to get creeps cut corners for an advantage? Because in 1v1 indeed only like 5 % are abusing it in this way (yet).

Yes, it might take people some time to get used to it, but maybe it won't be such an issue with an announcement starting 1 week before making it regular. I think maximum 50 players are abusing it yet. But if this becomes allowed officially, it will be far against my understanding of fairplay.


Please don't make this thread to general AS abuse ban topic guys, even though I would support it. But that would be really work to change it, don't know which idiot ever allowed it :p

[aRt)Y]

Please don't make this thread to general AS abuse ban topic guys, even though I would support it.

Rules must be general. Having too many little expectations just doesn't work.

[skillerinstinct]

I really can't see how this should get a big problem. It worked with the merc prohibit on 1v1 bot as well, just keep an announcement up some time too. And don't forget only few are doing it and less are going to raport it. So it won't be as much work as you fear. But if you just let it going, it will become a real problem one day.

Also it is only on the 1v1 bot a real problem.

[I_kill_satan]

^ and how long is that supposed to take? Do you think a mod has 30-40 minutes time to watch a replay without knowing where an antistuck with a duration of a few milliseconds will happen? Sounds.. legit.

@aRt)Y

i mean that _player_ before creating ban request watch replay and if he see that he right - opponent creeps go corner, its became obvious that glitch AS used. In request player type the time of incident, and mod's time isnt suffer. If this bug used it used early lvls, because opponent want to push income fast and use this trick for complete early lvls with less value. So most likely it could be from 1 to 7 lvl. For example u can see games of 'tjwls' how it works.

And, as i see, only several players do that, only at 1v1 bot and only who build in middle.

[iightfyre]

I'll watch some replays to get a better uderstanding of how this is being exploited in the corner. However, I agree with Art)y that rules need to be general as a rule that states "cannot use AS to make creeps get stuck on the corner" is too grey imo.

I think a better rule would be "You cannot build on the dark green area" - this will eliminate the "Corner AS" problem and it would be much easier to enforce.

Thoughts? @art)y @junzzi

[I_kill_satan]

@iightfyre


How about: "u can use AS only for 1. to make move stacked creeps on ur line; 2. on ur units 3. if ur ally ask u to help antistack his units".


Imo dark green area could be used for some tactic decisions so highly undesireable to forbidden it, due to almost all players build partly or full there. For mods it could be bigger problem than AS mid, if someone decide to build there on 41 minute and being requested for that .

[aRt)Y]

[spoiler=]Links in wrong order. 1 link belongs to the last found result. Last link belongs to the first found result.

1 Mar 2014 11:58:35 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #73 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068416.w3g -- Found: 0

1 Mar 2014 11:55:58 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #74 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068410.w3g -- Found: 1
3:27 Allistysmies 0x11: Unit/building ability (with target position) [flags=64, id='0x000D020A', x=-6067.489746, y=3808.288086]

1 Mar 2014 11:55:51 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #68 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068409.w3g -- Found: 0

1 Mar 2014 11:53:34 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #71 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068402.w3g -- Found: 1
3:25 qkswkd1004 0x11: Unit/building ability (with target position) [flags=64, id='0x000D020A', x=1430.505371, y=4348.687012]

1 Mar 2014 11:48:01 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #72 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068391.w3g -- Found: 0

1 Mar 2014 11:45:34 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #69 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068381.w3g -- Found: 0

1 Mar 2014 11:43:47 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #65 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068370.w3g -- Found: 0

1 Mar 2014 11:36:48 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #63 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068352.w3g -- Found: 0

1 Mar 2014 11:30:59 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #67 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068330.w3g -- Found: 0

1 Mar 2014 11:29:33 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #60 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068322.w3g -- Found: 0

1 Mar 2014 11:28:59 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #59 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068321.w3g -- Found: 0

1 Mar 2014 11:25:06 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #61 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068302.w3g -- Found: 3
4:33 ffww 0x11: Unit/building ability (with target position) [flags=64, id='0x000D020A', x=-5590.806152, y=4706.997559]
4:42 ffww 0x11: Unit/building ability (with target position) [flags=64, id='0x000D020A', x=-5635.341309, y=3239.223145]
8:37 ffww 0x11: Unit/building ability (with target position) [flags=64, id='0x000D020A', x=-5566.201172, y=4459.871094]

1 Mar 2014 11:23:45 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #66 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068293.w3g -- Found: 0

1 Mar 2014 11:12:15 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #64 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068261.w3g -- Found: 3
4:25 ffww 0x11: Unit/building ability (with target position) [flags=64, id='0x000D020A', x=1479.083984, y=4890.923340]
6:58 ffww 0x11: Unit/building ability (with target position) [flags=64, id='0x000D020A', x=1168.543701, y=3838.839844]
8:22 ffww 0x11: Unit/building ability (with target position) [flags=64, id='0x000D020A', x=1508.119385, y=4827.518066]

1 Mar 2014 11:11:53 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #62 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068259.w3g -- Found: 0

1 Mar 2014 11:05:56 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #53 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068241.w3g -- Found: 0

1 Mar 2014 11:05:53 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #55 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068240.w3g -- Found: 0

1 Mar 2014 11:03:58 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #57 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068234.w3g -- Found: 0

1 Mar 2014 11:02:43 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #56 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068224.w3g -- Found: 2
1:33 ffww 0x11: Unit/building ability (with target position) [flags=64, id='0x000D020A', x=1357.019409, y=5114.487305]
1:40 ffww 0x11: Unit/building ability (with target position) [flags=64, id='0x000D020A', x=1842.470093, y=3370.813477]

1 Mar 2014 11:00:08 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #47 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068212.w3g -- Found: 1
3:03 travers 0x11: Unit/building ability (with target position) [flags=64, id='0x000D020A', x=861.299011, y=2306.974365]

1 Mar 2014 10:56:40 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #58 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068195.w3g -- Found: 0

1 Mar 2014 10:55:44 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #52 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068190.w3g -- Found: 0

1 Mar 2014 10:47:54 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #48 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068157.w3g -- Found: 0

1 Mar 2014 10:42:40 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #51 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068136.w3g -- Found: 0

1 Mar 2014 10:40:14 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #45 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068129.w3g -- Found: 0

1 Mar 2014 10:35:32 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #49 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068106.w3g -- Found: 0

1 Mar 2014 10:34:25 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #50 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068103.w3g -- Found: 0

1 Mar 2014 10:27:52 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #41 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068082.w3g -- Found: 0

1 Mar 2014 10:22:13 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #44 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068060.w3g -- Found: 0

1 Mar 2014 10:20:24 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #42 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068052.w3g -- Found: 0

1 Mar 2014 10:20:13 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #40 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068051.w3g -- Found: 7
1:41 milka123 0x11: Unit/building ability (with target position) [flags=64, id='0x000D020A', x=-5864.581055, y=3174.901855]
3:19 milka123 0x11: Unit/building ability (with target position) [flags=64, id='0x000D020A', x=-5939.388672, y=3684.241211]
5:38 ffww 0x11: Unit/building ability (with target position) [flags=64, id='0x000D020A', x=1500.250488, y=5090.964355]
7:45 ffww 0x11: Unit/building ability (with target position) [flags=64, id='0x000D020A', x=1412.580933, y=4042.408691]
7:54 ffww 0x11: Unit/building ability (with target position) [flags=64, id='0x000D020A', x=1528.160400, y=3260.709961]
9:52 ffww 0x11: Unit/building ability (with target position) [flags=64, id='0x000D020A', x=1529.485596, y=4519.065918]
13:35 ffww 0x11: Unit/building ability (with target position) [flags=64, id='0x000D020A', x=1487.168213, y=4413.495117]

1 Mar 2014 10:10:15 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #43 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 068015.w3g -- Found: 0

1 Mar 2014 09:56:10 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #38 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 067975.w3g -- Found: 0

1 Mar 2014 09:53:52 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #36 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 067969.w3g -- Found: 0

1 Mar 2014 09:49:45 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #29 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 067953.w3g -- Found: 1
5:52 milka123 0x11: Unit/building ability (with target position) [flags=64, id='0x000D020A', x=-5934.473145, y=3289.069580]

1 Mar 2014 09:46:55 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #39 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 067937.w3g -- Found: 0

1 Mar 2014 09:37:13 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #37 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 067903.w3g -- Found: 2
3:59 ffww 0x11: Unit/building ability (with target position) [flags=64, id='0x000D020A', x=1437.010254, y=4795.051758]
12:02 ffww 0x11: Unit/building ability (with target position) [flags=64, id='0x000D020A', x=1587.919800, y=4895.901855]

1 Mar 2014 09:37:00 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #32 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 067901.w3g -- Found: 1
6:56 Nichlas93 0x11: Unit/building ability (with target position) [flags=64, id='0x000D020A', x=1374.809570, y=5295.265625]

1 Mar 2014 09:32:11 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #35 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 067882.w3g -- Found: 1
1:46 milka123 0x11: Unit/building ability (with target position) [flags=64, id='0x000D020A', x=-5888.354980, y=3276.935791]

1 Mar 2014 09:27:31 CET :: [ENT] Legion TD Mega 1v1 #34 :: http://storage.entgaming.net/replay/vie ... 067869.w3g -- Found: 1
8:32 dfgsjjjj 0x11: Unit/building ability (with target position) [flags=64, id='0x000D020A', x=-5315.887695, y=4818.345703]

Whether it was abuse or not must be judged by mods.

[/spoiler]

[I_kill_satan]

^ if no ban request mod dont have to judge it, but seems obvious ffww use this, and 99% that milka also.

[BeepBoopBeep]

@aRt)Y

All the link's are incorrect? Say's those 2 user's antistucked yet goes to a completely different game?

None the matter i looked into the 2 player's mentioned ffww and milka. It's definitely abuse, pulling summon's that they die first and creep's so they can kill x amount of creep's before the bulk of the creep wave hit's your towers.

At the current moment we have no rule, that restricts this from being abused as it currently is.

[aRt)Y]

@I_kill_satan I posted it to have an overview/statistic of how many users are (ab)using it. The purpose was not to ban them...

[nabo.]

This is why I wanted lihl/ltd mods to come to an agreement and tell us whether the use of AS on such cases(cases OP is complaining about) should be treated as an abuse of AS giving player(s) an advantage that they are not intended to have or simply treat these cases as a normal acceptable use of AS as part of a strategy or available tool. + should this act be ok in 1v1 ltd where skill matters more?

If you want the rule to stay general, you are accepting any use of AS on creep/boss on ur side of the field as part of a strategy or available tool(the latter case).

Some of you are saying "its fine its a pub" type of lines, however isnt part of lihl's responsibility to set a better bridge/setting, so pubs can climb up to lihl?

[Diablo_]

Well, if they are building mid to be able to use antistuck in that form, they also suffer a +2 armor aura on the creeps. I haven't seen this form of AS yet, but is it rly worth the +2 armor disadvantage? Do you maybe have a replay where we can see it skillerinstinct?

[BeepBoopBeep]

The below replay's should give you all more then enough indication of exactly how there using antistuck.

[skillerinstinct]

Thanks Beep.

@diablo_
It seems to be worth it.
You can see it like the +2 armor makes up for making sends like BO on wave 3 useless. BO reaches the towers first due to very fast movement and can be killed easy without having the actual wave arrived. Or killing the summons on 10 before the slow bosses arrive and so on. But with the as abuse its just to strong and unfair.

I think a better rule would be "You cannot build on the dark green area" - this will eliminate the "Corner AS" problem and it would be much easier to enforce.

I like this. If you think its easier to enforce, why not.

[supersexyy]

Is it really that OP? Enough to make a rule about it?