Battleships Drama/Suggestions Explanation

[TheGuyThatAKAs]

A little background on myself. I have played this mod for 10 years now, and was one of the original modders after sked released it unprotected to the community. I have been part of the battleships community long before most of these young bucks who are calling themselves pros even owned a copy of the game. And as the name suggests, I do AKA daily for the following reasons: to avoid trolls that I have whooped in the past looking to troll my game, to play against players that would bail a game if they seen my 95% win average. I could NOT care less about ELO, I know I am good at this game- but is that really a good thing:) Now with that said, I will add to the topic.

1: Most of the players responding to this thread are the aka trolls and the self proclaimed pro stackers, they are one in the same. They troll games, stack sides, join the opposite team of a friend and troll to help boost and/or save elo for a friend, join a friends game and drop at start so as to boost empire gold for a friend. These tactics are used mostly by the top 100 players which is only about 30 actual people. I am not going to call them out by name, but many of them have responded to this thread under akas and such.
2: I help newbies learn the game, but it is overwhelming when trying to teach 3 newbies how to play when the game is stacked. Stacked games have crippled the entgaming battleships community. If they want to stack a game then they can use your hosting system to host a game and stack all they want against people willing to join said hosted game, but to let them stack a public game and ruin it for the majority of ever shrinking players is absurd. SHUFFLING MUST BE APPLIED TO ALL PUBLIC GAMES IF YOU EXPECT TO HAVE A FAIR AND FUN GAMING COMMUNITY.
3: A few of the new battleships rules are lousy. Burning your own items and stealing an enemies should be allowed, but stealing an ally shouldn't be allowed. Burning is abusing a bug within the game, so if they want to drop that item to abuse a bug then there should be consequences. An Example is double trading, if that trader wants to drop a sail in order to double trade and abuse the contract bug then the opposing team should be able to steal said sail. Another is if a combat ship want to drop a sail, hull, wood, shell to abuse a bug to save gold then there should be consequences.

So in conclusion, shuffling should be turned on post-haste and never turned off. The elo system for battleships should be reset since the rules have changed and those at the top have abused bugs in the game and the elo system to get there. As of this posting I've played 6 games within the last 24 hours, and they have been hell. In each of the 6 games I've had one or more of the following issues happen: my team has been trolled, my team played a stacked team, I had a team where 3 players were afk most of the game, and player raged, fed the enemy then burned all their gold and quit. So I ask this question: Is entgaming here to host to some 30 self-proclaimed bships pro trolls or the rest of the community which numbers in the thousands. Those administering should think long and hard about the consequences and repercussions of catering to such a small minority.

[supersexyy]

So can you summarise your suggestions?

I see minor rule changes which can indeed be implemented. The bot has autobal so not sure how teams can be 'stacked'? And feeders/game ruiners can be reported and bans will be handed out.

[TheGuyThatAKAs]

the auto-balance is not on this morning.

[TheGuyThatAKAs]

So can you summarise your suggestions?

I see minor rule changes which can indeed be implemented. The bot has autobal so not sure how teams can be 'stacked'? And feeders/game ruiners can be reported and bans will be handed out.

Things I feel must be implemented in order to provide a fair and fun gaming environment:
1:turn on shuffling and never turn it off - this would squash 90% of the drama in bships.
2: reset the ladder - to give all players a fair shake under the new rules.
2:change the rules regarding burning items to the following: (1) Burning your own item is ok, (2) stealing enemy item is ok,(3) burning ally item is wrong, whether it be stealing or pooling.
3:temporary bans on trolls, feeders, afks, and abusive language.

A few things I've noticed that I think are wrong:
1: banning for not voting, some players don't even know english, so they don't understand what is going on.
2: range bans, could block entire metro areas from your service. It does more harm than good. There is really no good way to solve the ban dodging.
3: some of the bans I've seen pass are suspect. A few examples are: (1)It is hard to tell if someone is trolling or is just a plain ole newbie that doesn't know english, so there learning curve for the game will be different. (1) the learning curve with a crusader is steep compared to other ships, a sader that looks like he is trolling just might be someone playing a sader for the first time and really terribly with that ship.

[TheGuyThatAKAs]

I think there should at least be an option to disable the auto reshuffle based on the players in the game. Even if I wanted to play with 1 friend, I almost certainly can not because of the ELO rebalance. The rebalance helps make the game fair, but it does not prevent leaving and then defers others that have played but can no longer play with their friends. I have noticed that the games are actually taking longer to fill now because of this as well.

Entgaming gives you the options to host your own game so you can play with your friends. Your game will reach just as many players as the public games. Try it.

[TheGuyThatAKAs]

This old debate.....

That is not the attitude I'd expect from a mod.

Not many people use the forum and not many r aware of ENT rules, esp. battleship rules. Give it some time till people become aware of our rules and realize that it is a regulated game.

They know the rules, those breaking the rules are seasoned players.

As for stackers, it is normal and peeps r free to do so: not game ruining. Playing with friends or moving does not matter. We r doing the best on wc3 with wat we got. U cant compare to advanced match making systems from other newer games. If you guys feel the need for an autobalance battleship game for a possible more balanced game, I am sure uakf.b can add one.

While you keep thinking that way the majority of the entgaming bships community suffers while you cater to a small minority. They could easily host their own bships game on your service and reach just as many players. Now how many players would actually join a stacked game would be there problem.

I can show you a bunch of saved replays and screenshots of lobby chat where clans have actually harassed people out of the lobby so as to free spots for other clan members or harassed people out of games to tip the game to their favor. If that is not ruining a game then what is? seriously, I am asking you what is ?

[Stealer]

(2) stealing enemy item is ok,

Strongly disagree.

You can't carry enemy's equipment (game will make you drop it) but you can burn it seems a bit fishy.

With respect to double-contracting. Many bships games (we're talking years/half-decade) have made it so that if you dropped contact you lost trade item, bship pro clearly wanted to allow this as it has never been 'patched' despite being common knowledge for forever.

A few things I've noticed that I think are wrong:
1: banning for not voting, some players don't even know english, so they don't understand what is going on.

refusal to vk is a short duration ban and if they never got banned they may have never read the rules. imo its better to ban them and unban during the appeal than it is to let it slide and have them not vk feeders/etc & potentially break other rules.

2: range bans, could block entire metro areas from your service. It does more harm than good. There is really no good way to solve the ban dodging.

Got links?
In my experience, the whole metro is the one guy (or at least rule breakers).

3: some of the bans I've seen pass are suspect. A few examples are: (1)It is hard to tell if someone is trolling or is just a plain ole newbie that doesn't know english, so there learning curve for the game will be different.

Got links to the bans?
iirc all the feeding bans for quite some time have always been somebody running their ship straight down to enemy harbor consistently for many deaths. I've seen bad players and even bad players try to stay alive and don't dive the second they respawn.

[TheGuyThatAKAs]

I still don't see how shuffling players is going to help new people learn the game.
If they were going to teach noobs when 2-3 of them were on their team why try when it's 1-2?

I do not think its a good idea to make many changes at once, probably shouldn't implement shuffling close to when rules changed.

I teach newbies all the time. Where to buy items, which items are best, how to burn items so they can compete on a level with the self-proclaimed pros.

But when one side is stacked with seasoned players and the other side stacked with newbies the odds of a shitty game grow exponentially with each season player against a newbie.

I'd suggest you play a few bships games and see for yourself before you make such absurd claims.

[TheGuyThatAKAs]

(2) stealing enemy item is ok,

Strongly disagree.

I doubt you have ever played bships. I gave two prime examples why this should be allowed but I'm guessing you justed skimmed my post. I will state them again.

An Example is double trading, if that trader wants to drop a sail in order to double trade and abuse the contract bug then the opposing team should be able to steal said sail. Another is if a combat ship want to drop a sail, hull, wood, shell to abuse a bug to save gold then there should be consequences.

Now you tell me why a trader would be able to abuse the contract bug and double trade but an enemy can't abuse a bug to steal the sail to force the trader to either play fair or be more careful where they drop an item. Same goes for a combat ship, why would they be allowed to abuse a bug by dropping a sail, wood, hull, or shell and save gold but an enemy can't steal that item to force them to play fair or be more careful where they drop an item.

You can't carry enemy's equipment (game will make you drop it) but you can burn it seems a bit fishy

There are a bunch of things you shouldn't be able to do in the game but you can and that is why they are called BUGS

With respect to double-contracting. Many bships games (we're talking years/half-decade) have made it so that if you dropped contact you lost trade item, bship pro clearly wanted to allow this as it has never been 'patched' despite being common knowledge for forever.

That is the stupidest thing I have ever read on this forum. Nobody maintains bships pro anymore and its been that way for years. And that is the reason why there are rules in place to stop the bug abuse. It is either that or stop hosting the game because its not going to be patched.

A few things I've noticed that I think are wrong:
1: banning for not voting, some players don't even know english, so they don't understand what is going on.

refusal to vk is a short duration ban and if they never got banned they may have never read the rules. imo its better to ban them and unban during the appeal than it is to let it slide and have them not vk feeders/etc & potentially break other rules.

Man, you are on a roll with these stupid comments. Yea, ban a players because they don't know english and then expect them to read a forum thats not in their language? Is this service internationalize to understand pinoy?

2: range bans, could block entire metro areas from your service. It does more harm than good. There is really no good way to solve the ban dodging.

Got links?

In my experience, the whole metro is the one guy (or at least rule breakers).

This is yet another absurd comment. Are you even thinking when you type? My class A ip block covers most of the philly metro area and i live 40 miles from downtown philly. I know fourteen players that live close to me, and thats just the ones I know of. So if anyone of us caught an ip range ban it would affect the rest of us.

3: some of the bans I've seen pass are suspect. A few examples are: (1)It is hard to tell if someone is trolling or is just a plain ole newbie that doesn't know english, so there learning curve for the game will be different.

Got links to the bans?
iirc all the feeding bans for quite some time have always been somebody running their ship straight down to enemy harbor consistently for many deaths. I've seen bad players and even bad players try to stay alive and don't dive the second they respawn.

I will gather you like 10+ replays where players were banned for not voting on votekicks and where players were banned for being chitty saders within this year. Being chitty at a game and being a troll are two different things.

Unlike you, I'm not talking out my ass just to seem smart. I joined this thread to improve bships, I have no reason to lie. Do you even play the mod? I've never seen you, so I will assume you have no idea what you are talking about.

[Stealer]

That is the stupidest thing I have ever read on this forum. Nobody maintains bships pro anymore and its been that way for years. And that is the reason why there are rules in place to stop the bug abuse. It is either that or stop hosting the game because its not going to be patched.

I think you missed the half-decade part of the comment.
bship pro has been edited at least twice since I've used double-contract.

This is yet another absurd comment. Are you even thinking when you type? My class A ip block covers most of the philly metro area and i live 40 miles from downtown philly. I know fourteen players that live close to me, and thats just the ones I know of. So if anyone of us caught an ip range ban it would affect the rest of us.

aka you've never been caught in a range ban.

I will gather you like 10+ replays where players were banned for not voting on votekicks and where players were banned for being chitty saders within this year. Being chitty at a game and being a troll are two different things.

The threads where they got banned would be fine tbh.

[yeo]

Haven't checked out this long long long post for weeks. I am amazed that many bship players/ non-bship players have interested at this topic. I feel like joining this long discussion and I prefer talking in a third view position. My wording may be mean a bit. Hopefully some of you won't mind.

So do people like the autobalance so far?

@uakf.b I do like it. It allows me to have more fun.

I MISS THE INHOUSES WE USED TO HAVE

@l1ghtning Me too. I haven't played ih for like half year now. I miss you as well.

Nope. Does not fix it at all. Akas join game considered as "noob" because they don't have elo so they get stacked vs normal players with elo who gets the shittiest noobs. It does not balance at all.

@mich_vee I do agree. In bship crossfire, it shuffles before game starts. I wish admins can consider to replace that.

If you want to do a 5v5 clan battle, then you should obviously use the public hosting system. The autohost bots are meant for public games.

@uakf.b It's hard to gather 10 good people to play in a public hosting system.

I think there should at least be an option to disable the auto reshuffle based on the players in the game. Even if I wanted to play with 1 friend, I almost certainly can not because of the ELO rebalance. The rebalance helps make the game fair, but it does not prevent leaving and then defers others that have played but can no longer play with their friends. I have noticed that the games are actually taking longer to fill now because of this as well.

@Dyno98 Some points you have made I do agree. As far as what I see till now, 'elo fighters' have stopped playing bship for awhile. Some 'elo fighters' might choose to go aka, but they kept leaving and joining. They prolonged game time, so that they could play with their friends or satisfy their "right team". Pitiful, isn't it?

Most of the players responding to this thread are the aka trolls and the self proclaimed pro stackers, they are one in the same. They troll games, stack sides, join the opposite team of a friend and troll to help boost and/or save elo for a friend, join a friends game and drop at start so as to boost empire gold for a friend.

@TheGuyThatAKAs I do agree. I had a few games recently. Some skillful players played with their friends, they split out into two sides due to elo balancing system. HOWEVER, one of the 'skillful' players may not try their best for their team and he/she/they were willing to lose to other side. He/she/they might not feed against rules, but they never attempted to change ships or buy weapons to fight back. There were many similar games like this. I won't mention their names. Again, pitiful, isn't it?

And as the name suggests, I do AKA daily for the following reasons: to avoid trolls that I have whooped in the past looking to troll my game, to play against players that would bail a game if they seen my 95% win average. I could NOT care less about ELO, I know I am good at this game- but is that really a good thing:)

@TheGuyThatAKAs I know you are putting yourself as an example, but I have to state something. There are many people (actual players) who can keep more than 95% win average. It isn't so difficult at all once you have understood what to do/ what to avoid in game. Therefore, there is no need to show off your 'win average'. Other words, I dislike the way you introduce yourself. Forgive me, if I am rude here.

I help newbies learn the game

@TheGuyThatAKAs 'Telling people to hull up', do you state that as a help? If so, hmmm, i had helped many people for years. lol

Burning your own items and stealing an enemies should be allowed, but stealing an ally shouldn't be allowed. Burning is abusing a bug within the game, so if they want to drop that item to abuse a bug then there should be consequences. An Example is double trading, if that trader wants to drop a sail in order to double trade and abuse the contract bug then the opposing team should be able to steal said sail. Another is if a combat ship want to drop a sail, hull, wood, shell to abuse a bug to save gold then there should be consequences.

@TheGuyThatAKAs I do agree with this case only. It is part of the strategy in this game. Nevertheless, I only advise admins to consider this as legal in normal mode, not other modes.

I had a team where 3 players were afk most of the game, and player raged, fed the enemy then burned all their gold and quit.

@TheGuyThatAKAs Admins should consider to set up in game. If players afk more than 15-20min, they should automatically kick out of the game.

To summarize my points:

1)If admins still want to keep elo balancing systems, I strongly suggest that admins should consider shuffling before game starts. (like bship crossfire's bot)

2)I support part of TheGuyThatAKAs thinking. Admins should adjust bship rules. "Stealing enemy items only applies to normal mode. e.g stealing enemy trader/traders sail, to slow him/her/ them down."

3)Automatically kick out afk people who had afk in game for like 15min-20min.

P.S: I don't know why I type all these. I think I am just bored. lol

[Stealer]

Some 'elo fighters' might choose to go aka, but they kept leaving and joining. They prolonged game time, so that they could play with their friends or satisfy their "right team". Pitiful, isn't it?

@yeo

Do not delay a game from starting by joining/leaving multiple times or otherwise.

http://wiki.entgaming.net/index.php?title=EntGaming:Rules

Admins should consider to set up in game. If players afk more than 15-20min, they should automatically kick out of the game.

People would just move every x time units depending on what the kick time was.
Dota has a similar thing to let people kick afk but people do things to avoid it.
If people afk, report them.

[aRt)Y]

Please stay on the topic. Discussing bans in bship seems too much for this topic to handle. The reason for this one is elo, auto-balance and any other concerns the OP stated.

If you feel the need to discuss other things in regards of bship, please create another topic.

[tom_b]

against someone they don't wanna play.

The reason of that being?

Reason of what being? That people might perhaps leave the lobby prior to the game starting? Well, people will leave if they disagree with the autoshuffle decision as they frequently do, hence my point. This leads to longer starting times for pub games as people cycle endlessly through the (unrecorded, I might add) lobby to wait for favourably stacked pub games. Im honestly not trying to be rude or sarcastic here, I just don't know what you're trying to point out/struggling to comprehend

Please stay on the topic. Discussing bans in bship seems too much for this topic to handle. The reason for this one is elo, auto-balance and any other concerns the OP stated.

If you feel the need to discuss other things in regards of bship, please create another topic.

Not quite sure as to why you're so anxious to split what has come to be a general discussion about the bot and the general misplay/poor sportsmanship that has been happening into multiple topics. Sure, a few OT ban/inflamatory posts but it is honestly unlikely you'll ever see people congrgate and post as frequently or as vehemently about this game as they are doing now, whats wrong with everyone getting it out? Discussion is good, particularly as so many posters seem so polarised between rule choices, "pro" or not. Also, many of the admins seem to be somewhat misinformed with the generally accepted rules of this game, more discussion might help to alleviate that

TBH the auto balance suggestion was on the forum all of a day or two before being implemented, give people some time to react before doing more. I also don't doubt you can't see how the popularity of ent19 has declined recently since the implementation of this AB. Also, I'm of the opinion the vote should be made public, not in the least part due to the skewing I believe is currently occurring through single use AKA's for this forum.

P.S autoSHUFFLE could be fun

[aRt)Y]

I was asking why people dont wanna play versus other players unless they are seeking for their own stack which obviously doesn't seem possible due to auto-balance.