Petition Post to bring back the old dota 6.83d [EDIT - I added a poll]

[bansheex]

The worst part about ap gold gain and more recipes is that it steepens the learning curve and magnifies the effect that nabs and feeders have on games. And there are a LOT of nabs and feeders on ENT. The rate at which free gold comes means total team skill is vitally important to winning now and you can't overcome noob teammates or see them recover into relevance late. Which makes sense for competitive play, but is a NIGHTMARE for pub play.

This, in turn, encourages stacking to the point that we're waiting way longer for games to start. It also encourages leaving because it prolongs unwinnable games since the gold comes slower and towers are stronger. You'll sit there 20 minutes longer now after watching your nab team get off to a terrible start from which they can't recover and won't ff because... they're nabs.

We had this discussion like a year ago already with regards to admins force feeding this gold mode. They apparently still don't get it.

[SoJ]

I'm not opposed to change or new ideas, but I wonder if the decision to switch is in the best interest of the vast majority of players.

In my view, the popularity of 6.83d was 50% due to semi-competitive play and 50% due to nostalgia and predictability. These are important factors for such a tenured game because they reflect the interest of the current player base where everyone differs in levels of competitiveness. If ENT values diverse and high player participation in the long term, I think it's important to consider the influence of map change on this 50/50 balance.

In example, despite all of the drawbacks of ELO ratings, they encourage competitive behavior while at the same time, the look and feel of the game itself is so familiar (in the way that chess or poker is familiar), that "free play" is encouraged; thus, we see players with less competitive spirit stick around with the ambitious ones who like to build rank. The value of this freedom to be more or less competitive cannot be underestimated. I think the map change offers less to both types of players because it sacrifices parts of an original aesthetic (which has a long history on ENT bots) while also resetting the competitive landscape at a potentially high cost to player retention. It's a risk that I think can be mitigated, however....

For the less vocal minority (as evidenced in the poll and this thread) who looks forward to the new map, I implore ENT to find a technical solution to run the new map in tandem. Perhaps it could be implemented more gradually, with long-term testing and feedback. Give the community a chance to taste the water before switching wells altogether, you know?

Personally, I favor improving what we already have by +10% or small increments rather than starting all over which is what this map feels like. I know the "old" DotA map is not being supported, but have we really exhausted all mutually agreeable options as a community?

[Burnt]

If everyone likes old map, maybe we can make arem back to 6.83 while keeping ap"em" in 6.85

since you can vote to change mode in lobby anyways - then people have the choice to play both ar/ap modes in both new/old maps

[Escanor]

@kill the problem with that is how many bots we have available and how much space it takes on the servers

Hi Larz,

I'm not really used to comment post but this time, this topic draw my attention.
I will first answer to your comment and then share my own though on this.
For the number of bots problem, wouldn't it be a solution to use those you already have in place for standard AP games and switch them to the new version and keep those dedicated to APEM for the older version?
Not really used to bot system so it might not be possible. I don't know if it is the same bots that deal with ALL games or if you have some dedicated to each type of games. I think you could also close EURO games. Never seen an EURO game start in like a year.

Ok as for the new version, I have been a DOTA player since now 15 years and seen SO many map version I can't even count them.
I remember the good old days of 5.83B where the map took 15 REAL minutes to load. People used to NEVER EVER leave those games since it was so long to get in one! Who remember the old SA wards!!
In my hole DOTA history it is the first time I really dislike a version. I'm truly trying to give it a try since some previous versions it took me more than a week to really adapt to it, but this time, damn I really join games with already a bad mood. I just can't get used to it. Especially that they have SO changed my good techy !!! I am a techi player and damn, it is the first time he gets so nerfed! He isn't playable anymore (bah I will have to get used cause I can't just abandon him, we have a so long history together!!) but damn what have they done!! I don't know if they decide to change him so much just to get rid of him in games....

I do agree with everything that has already been said in previous post so no need to repeat them.
One point that has been brought up by some is that mainly this community still lives on mostly by nostalgia (as I do still play BG2 ) of their good old days of DOTA gaming.

With that being said, either dead CASH or long live ENT have skipped come DOTA version in their history and I personally think that this one should be skipped.

So guys (and girls) lets enjoy our gaming's and please try to stay respectful (saw so much trash talk those days in games).

[YakOoM]

So over 90% want the old map back - when do you change it?
Want to play again

[aRt)Y]

I would like to thank everyone who has taken part in this discussion in a mannered and reasonable way. As mentioned multiple times by now, ENT supports map developers as any progress is better than none. We can always change back - which we will do now.

Let me be clear though: ENT will continue to test new maps. The discussions will take part on the forum. For obvious reasons, we can discuss it in the bot lobby or game chat. So in your own interest, you should stop by once in a while and chat with us! :)

We've no interest whatsoever in harming the players or creating an unpleasant gaming atmosphere. The intent was always good. It surprises me personally though that a lot of players are coming here and literally "qq" about it. I am convinced that we are all old enough to talk it through and only because we would like a few days to actually read why you dislike it (in order to avoid it in the future, perhaps), does not mean we entirely reject the petition/proposal.

With that said, I am looking forward to reading new discussions. Many of you've now gotten to know how ENT works. It's a large community and therefore we are taking our time to manage it.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=93482 is awaiting uak's implementation.