ENT Gaming

Why do we have a ladder at all? Probably so that we can see who the highest rated players for the map that we're playing are, right? We also want to be able to have an easy way to compare our success with others. Well, sadly we can't do either of those right now. But why? I mean, the ladder is showing the highest rated players in public games is it not? Somewhat yes... But if we're looking a bit closer we'll notice that we might aswell have Dota players in that list and it wouldn't change the accuracy of that ladder in the slightest... Why do i think this way? Because it's a fact.

Let's look a this example:

This is what the Top 10 of the LTD Ladder looks like.


And this is what the Top 10 of the LTD Ladder actually is.


As you can see we actually have 3 different Ladders merged into one, which makes the whole reason of the ladder obsolete.

For clarity:

The players I categorized as "Mega/Euro" are such who've not played any Beta games recently and have most of their games played on either the Mega or the Euro bot. The reason I put Mega/Euro together is because they both have the same rules, same version and for the most part the same players, there is no real difference. This is also the most flexible category, because from my point of view everyone who doesn't play exclusively on either Beta or 1,2k+ belongs in this category. So Mega/Euro might also be a "mixed" player who plays Mega/Euro aswell as Beta & 1,2k+.

The players I categorized as "Beta" are such who've exclusively played Beta games.

The players I categorized as "1,2k+" are such who've exclusively played 1,2k+ games.

The players I marked with "??" are such where i don't exactly know where they have their elo from. bbo.bbo for example has 3 1,2k+ games in his history but nothing else, and from the time before my recent wc3 break i remember that he had played a lot of Mega/Euro aswell, so i didn't wanna categorize him as 1,2k+ Player. As you can see, this is a problem.. Why do we have such a merged ladder? I mean... It is ok that all bots have the same elo, it's way too late to change that anyway because people would be really pissed about an elo reset; but we could easily have 3 different ladders showing 3 different types of players.

So here is my suggestion:

Remove the current "Legion TD Mega" Ladder and replace it with "Legion TD Mega/Euro", also add "Legion TD Beta" and "Legion TD 1,2k+".
To determine who should be in which ladder i recommend the following:

Mega/Euro: This is sort of the general ladder where everyone will find himself that doesn't meet the requirements to be placed in either the beta or 1,2k+ ladder.

Beta: Players will only be shown in this ladder if their last 50 games were exclusively played on the beta bot; or if they have 100% beta games in general (must be at least 10 games played total).

1,2k+: Players will only be shown in this ladder if their last 50 games were exclusively played on the 1,2k+ bot. Also at least 50% of their total games have to be on the 1,2k+ bot.

Note: Drawn games do not count towards the 50 required games!

If a player is for example placed in the 1,2k+ ladder he will immediatly be removed from it and placed in the Mega/Euro ladder instead if he plays a single game on any bot that isn't the 1,2k+ one! Same goes for Beta. So these 2 ladders will be very strict. Why is this a good idea? Because it's essentially different games and they should have seperate ladders! I for example have no clue how to play properly on the beta bot, and a player who only plays mega/euro and only cross has no idea how to play properly on 1,2k+; so why are we all in the same ladder?

I know this will probably not be as easy to implement but it's surely possible and i think it's a much needed change.

I would understand seperating beta, but not others.

If we do decide to separate beta, we will wipe all ltd stats and start over. Analyzing every account to determine whether user's majority of games are ltd beta or not is a cumbersome process.

It really isn't as hard as you think. Infact i could do it myself with the information the current ladder gives me (tho it would be more accurate with the data you have stored; and i know you do, because aRt)y once posted me a list of players who play a lot on 1,2k+). I could write a simple algorithm that reads through the toplist, checking player for player and gathering data like this. The source code structure is clear enough for that. Obviously it would be much easier for someone who has access to the actual database, which would also take much less time & resources to process. You could also do it so the ladder only updates every 1-6 hours, depending on how timetaking the process actually is. Or you could have only a top 100 list for 1,2k+ so you'd have to process waaaaay less players and then it surely wouldn't take much time or resources. Also a top 100 list for 1,2k+ should actually be enough, because there are not too many high rated players playing exclusively on 1,2k+. My point is: It's really not that hard and a complete elo reset isn't necessary!

Why would you understand to seperate beta, but not Mega/Euro from 1,2k+? Mega/Euro and 1,2k+ have completly different playstyles because of the fact that you can cross on Mega/Euro, not to mention that 1,2k+ is far more competitive in general and it's a much greater accomplishment to gain high elo on 1,2k+. If you'd seperate some u should seperate all. You can't tell me that you believe someone who has for example 1,5k elo on Mega/Euro could easily do that playing on 1,2k+ aswell.

Why do all people think they know better when they haven't even seen the technical parts of ENT themselves?

aRt)Y wrote:Why do all people think they know better when they haven't even seen the technical parts of ENT themselves?

Cause they dont know, uakf.bsecurity > bank of whatever security.

And Akitos ... if you want a ladder with people just playing the same map and rules, go ahead and get active in LIHL. I personally like that ent18/euro/1200+ is mixed, though beta rly could get an own ranking

LIHL is mixed aswell in my opinion, because 2vs2, 3vs3 and 4vs4 also play differently D: In LoL for example 3vs3 and 5vs5 are also seperate, because guess what, IT'S DIFFERENT and LTD is no exception to that. Not to mention i don't enjoy the LIHL environment too much for various other reasons. If you guys don't wanna do it i might do an inofficial 1,2k+ ladder myself then.

Wipe (reset) stats isn't a bad idea. I support

Will see if we can do something.

If we do, there will be an announcement.