ELO in the LIHL

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dweiler
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ELO in the LIHL

Postby dweiler » Fri May 10, 2013 5:49 pm

While reading the information on the LIHL I saw this paragraph

LIHL is divided into six cycles (aka seasons) per year. The first season ends on February 1st, the second ends on April 1st, the third ends on June 1st, the fourth ends on August 1st, the fifth ends on October 1st, and the sixth ensd on December 1st. At the end of each cycle, the player with the highest ELO score will receive a prize of $50, and we will post other awards (highest K/D, most insane, etc.) on the forum.


After playing LIHL for a while now, I feel the ELO system is wrong when taken as a measure to determine the ranking. I feel this for two reasons:

1. It does not take the amount of games in consideration. Because the games are A-Bal all games will be +- 15 ELO win/loss. Therefore, someone with 3-2, will have the same ELO as someone with 23-22. Since the competition is fierce, I feel like the amount of games should be awarded. I can take myself as an example: i have 13-8, and have the same ELO as MurkemHanks who has 33-28. It would be more fair if he is ranked higher in my opinion.

2. Not playing while you are on top is encouraged with this ELO system: because of A-Bals, teams are divided equally, and because legion td is a non-micro game which is largely based on luck (your rolls) in the top, you can easily lose ELO while there is nothing you can do about it. People with high ELO will be aware of this and will tend to sit it out until something changes, and not extend your lead, because the odds are always against you. As an example (and I don't know if this is true) Eldryanthewise has 7-2 and 1076 now, and will probably do better if he does not play at all anymore now, than if he starts playing again, for he can lose his ELO easily. If he goes from 7-2 to 27-22 (which are better stats in my opion) for example he will still be ranked at this elo (or even 5 ELO lower, like Feor is with this stats) and have gained no advantage whatsoever by playing 40 games. In other words, if you are bad and have 6 lucky games in the beginning you can easily become rank 3 or 4, whilst your real ranking would be 40th if you kept on playing. This doesn't seem right to me.

In my opinion, playing should be more encouraged for two reasons: 1. I think it will give a boost to the amount of games that are played, which will add a dimension to the gaming experience. 2. It benefits people dedicated to the game and willing to play, instead of people stopping after a few (lucky) games.

I am no elo expert, but my suggestion would be to give more ELO to wins and less to losses. I think that a 1 elo difference might already work to stimulate playing. However, this is just a rough guess and I will support any other good way to promote playing.

I do enjoy the LIHL and I will keep enjoying it with this ELO system, it is just a thought :)
I would like to hear some thoughts about this.

EDIT: To add to my objection nr.2: when you look at the LIHL ranking you can see that almost all players are within 900-1100 ELO. This shows the margins between the players are very narrow and that a lucky streak can easily be abused.
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Re: ELO in the LIHL

Postby supersexyy » Fri May 10, 2013 7:10 pm

It shows that people aren't good enough to string wins together you mean? (except beep)
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Re: ELO in the LIHL

Postby dweiler » Fri May 10, 2013 8:02 pm

Ye sorta, but that's inherent in this game I think, but the main idea is to make mass gaming more attractive because of the ELO system.. I guess that's what we all want, a system that promotes playing, so more games are played.
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Re: ELO in the LIHL

Postby iightfyre » Fri May 10, 2013 9:11 pm

couple points here:

1. The elo on week one was much more "clustered" than it is now. Over time, the winners and losers will vary more in rankings. It takes time to see who can really win consistently vs those who are merely 2-0.

2. The amount of players on LIHL will make a huge difference. The more players we have, the more players will have a chance at gaining ELO.
* For instance. With the same 10 players online then the #1 and #2 ELOS will always be against eachother. And if beep keeps winning, he will seperate himself from the pack. (this is what we are currently seeing). The problem is that the #2 - #10 players rarely can play games without beep or other high ELO players being involved. This means that the ELO on the players ranked #2-#10 is just being shuffled back and forth and no1 is really gaining any ground.
---- The more players in the league, the less we will see this ELO cluster. For every new player involed, 1000 ELO is added into the mix to be won or lost. Player # is the big factor here, not the ELO system.

3. We should allow this season to play out as is before making any changes. Let's see how it evens out over a couple of months before doing anything drastic. Remember that this system fresh and the league is new. Most of the ELO was awarded when there was only 10-15 players active in the league. This, by default, will create a mix of 1050-950 ELO players. We need a bigger community to form in order to see what is really going on here.

4. I did also think about a top player not playing the last week of a season in order to solidify a victory. There is room for debate here. I feel maybe one fix is to make a "playoffs" at the end of a season where all of the top 10 players are required to play a set # of games within the last 2 weeks of competition. This will ensure that no1 "sandbags" their ELO and just waits for $50.

Thanks for the suggestion - I have thought about similar fixes myself but I really believe that we need to give this some time to even out a little. Will keep our eyes on it.

- PS - i hope this all makes sense :D

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Re: ELO in the LIHL

Postby iightfyre » Fri May 10, 2013 9:16 pm

PPS -

Regarding more games being advantageous, take a look at my ELO. I am 1 game above .500 but I have 1025 ELO. This is +10 simply because I have played more games. Remember that the games are not +15/-15, they are +16/-14 or +15.5/-14.5. The ELO will rarely be exactly even. More games gives players more chance at winning "upset" matches that award higher ELO. Makes sense?

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Re: ELO in the LIHL

Postby dweiler » Sat May 11, 2013 7:47 am

It does make sense! I guess it is true that the success of this ELO-system is proportional to the amount of players. I analyzed the system as if it had a fixed amount of players, while it is in fact growing.

Thanks for your enlightening response, and I'm eager to see how it works out the next couple of months :)
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Re: ELO in the LIHL

Postby uakf.b » Fri May 17, 2013 12:00 am

For the first cycle it'll definitely be ELO since that's already set (changing now wouldn't be fair), for future ones maybe it'll change depending on how it works out. Moving to archive.
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