ENFO changes

[Jabba41]

As the currently hosted version of ENFOs isnt played a lot (9games/7days) i suggest changing it to ENFOS_MT_V193 as this is the map hosted the most via the privat game hosting.

I talked with some players and they agreed that this map is the best and most balances one.

Regarding the slots/autostart/requirements for votestart etc. I want to wait for input of the enfo community.

[kwaakgeval]

Hi,

Indeed, Enfo MT 1.93 is the most balanced and frequently played version.
We (clan enFo/others that like the game) host this on a fairly daily basis and have noticed a (re)growth in the community.
Every time we host games fill within minutes, gladly.

Regarding slots/autostart/requirements, it is a tough decision.

Best way to play the game is 5v5 in my opinion, but this may take a long time for game to start not during peak hours.
So I strongly recommend the votestart command/option. (minimum is 3v3 tbh)

Also, there are a ton of game modes available, varying from adjusting difficulty to bounty multiplier and banning certain heroes.
Player 1 (RED) has to enter these modes.

I would recommend this ''hcl'' command so bot auto enters commands, to get game going.
The game is relatively easy to understand / comprehend, but the basics may take a while for people.

To once again get an active community going and to maintain new players also, I advise you to start off with ''easy'' modes.

-SB (shared bounty => equally divide gold amongst all players in team)
-VOTE (each player receives a vote to decide difficulty)
-EB2 (extra bounty 2, for 5v5 games for example... for 3v3 however there is no need for EB)

Kind regards,

enFo.kwaak (@B.net EUROPE realm)

[enfohost]

Hello, enFo.Host here (same origin as kwaak above)

I agree with the majority of things said above, especially with MT being more balanced and in demand.

I'd recommend having 3v3 as minumum while having slot 1 to 10 open for 5v5 and using 4v4 as autostart.
Having -sb enabled and the ability to change difficulty is very important in Enfo (since it differs in almost every match).
!hcl does not work well in Enfo as it disables/overrides all modes from the players/red and is very limited.
(Only) if !hcl could be overriden by non admins in game lobby it'd be good to use default: 2-sb


Explanation for reasons above:
Enfo MT !hcl info: http://mtteam.proboards.com/thread/1998 ... s-commands (difficulty-change and -eb are not available)
The game was originally made for 4v4 (most balanced team-size).
3v3 was used in tournaments (balanced but requires experienced players).
We (who manually bot-) host enfo MT daily usually play 5v5 since one player usually desyncs/disconnetcs/leaves within the first 10 minutes.
1 and 2v2 does not work well.

Thank you for your time.

[Membaris]

Hey there,

couldn't agree more to the words Kwaak and Host said.

One can always argue about balancing or "being best", but what makes MT really good is the interaction between heroes, and therefore between the team.
Even the best ppl might lose a game against "only average" ppl, due to having a bad hero-combination, therefore not being able to inflict any real (aoe)dmg. Which might sound like a "hard to get into"-thing is actually only a trivial matter, since the available heroes are shown in different sections of the starting-area, so one can (even without any knowledge) see the different types of them (tank, rounded, spellcaster, support), and from the first minute on try to play with and for the team by taking a hero-type which was not taken yet.
Due to a good overall-balancing of the heroes, all heroes got their own good and bad sites from beginning, over middle to endgame. Some heroes might start of rly strong, others have their golden moments in middle-game, some are the best in late-game, but overall every hero can be usefull in it's own way and even more usefull at the right part of the game. "Wanna start of rly strong at the beginning? go sniper and 1hit anything for half of the game.. but beware endgame, when you get your problems"... ""Wanna be ok-overall but help your mates push easily through middle-game in order to make your tank's middlegame easy - go pick arcane mistress and show monsters how cold it can get, and even later being usefull by casting an extra defense buff!". Once you get the hang of it you can go for combinations of all 3-4 Herotypes, together with a combination of "atleast 1x good in early/middle/endgame" - teamwork at it's finest, even for a beginner.

It might take a bit to understand the basics of items, but after a few games of "watch->copy->try for oneself" one understands how to get through a match. Especially since there aren't an overflowing number of items, one get's the hang of it pretty fast. Since there are only a handfull of recipes to combine items (which too are shown with 1 click - no scrolling through anything, not even a real need to remember it when you are new, since you can look for it in less than 10secs) even without further knowledge one will get the idea of "yeah... maybe that one cool axe to combine and that one cool sword ARE what i need as a physical hitter"... or "yeah, i'm a caster.. there is one recipe for a staff... i go for it!" - one does not need to overthink things too much - the map's there and you can just play it!

Also, due to the different types of heroes and there different golden times ingame, there's enough to try out and enjoy for a long time.

No need to learn thousands of things - after having the basics rdy, it's all good.
Experience will sharpen an idea for tactics - that's when it gets tough: but that challenge only applies to those who already like the map and play it often enough to think about actually using tactics, so it's therefore balanced aswell: be new and have fun with an easy-to-learn model, or be an advanced person and get into tactics to have challenging matches.

Commands ingame too aren't an overflowing number, so it's easy to new ppl to get the idea behind "-z.far" to zoom out, "-tips" to disable tips or "-range X" to set the range your hero will run to in order to auto-attack.

Comparing all this to other enfos, atleast for me they always lacked atleast a bit on several points - one does not even need to speak about several unofficial enfos, like enfos ts:dynamo etc.... no balance at all in any way.

So overall, i rly thank you for considering hosting MT!
Let's hope - if done so - ppl will still come together and enjoy themselves.

-
About Slots/autostart/votestart:
It should be atleast 4vs4, since 3vs3 often ends in a 2vs3 and therefore ruining the game.
If one leaves or drops in a 4vs4 it's still uneven - but 4vs3 is much more balanced, since it's still a chance to use a tanking, a casting and a supporting hero, therefore having a working team.
5vs5 for those fullhouse-lovers too is lovely, if only not for certain times when one won't get more than like 6ppl.
So a !votestart-function will be good, in order to start the map earlier.
Autostart might get problematic, if the map could start at a balance of 5vs3, when it autostarts at 8, so that too would need to be set to 10, as long as it does not cause problems with the votestart (i am not familiar with this ).

--> basicly, if there's a !votestart, 10 open slots (5vs5) sounds totally fine.
might even be the best way to start, so having 2 new ppl and 3 already advanced ones can teach them, or if those 2 wanna play for themselves still
try to win with only the 3 of them.

-
About Matchmaking (?)
I'm unfamiliar with that too, but from what i heard, several maps have a feature to show a rating of ppl, and therefore a chance to win.
From what i heard this causes the problem of ppl leaving the map, since they won't have a 90% chance to win.
A Map like enfo in it's balanced way too should be about balance and fun - so having a shown rating which actually makes ppl try to stack on purpose (not only by reason they know each other) would hurt.
Even more, if it ends in ppl leaving all over, due to not being satisfied with the chance to win, which ends in a never-starting game, where "everyone just enters and leaves" all over.
But that's just from what i heard and personal thinkings.

TL DR: - good balancing
- easy to learn
- votestart on a 10 slot opened game (5vs5), to make smaller games possible too
- thx for considering

: )

[Jabba41]

@uakf.b
Please change the map on ENT49 to ENFOS_MT_V193 (attached above in first post) and change the Bots name to "[ENT] Enfo's TS MT #"

Open all slots. (10)
Votestart possible with 6 players in the game. Autostart with 10 players.
No hcl for the moment.
No autoban.

Thank you.



@Membaris @enfohost @kwaakgeval Thanks for input. Lets see how it works out.

[MetalDust]

Hi. Another Enfo freak here..

About hcl, I have never seen it in use what I remember. If it disables Red player from putting other modes it is not so good.. One reason why this version has been popular over the years is the variety of modes I believe. However, if you going to use it, I recommend -sb (sharedbounty) and -vote only.

Autohost settings: I recommend a setup of 4v4 and a autostart function at 8 players. Also -votestart if possible. In case you do not have -votestart, a setup of 3v3 might be considered. It depends on how easy the games will be filled up.

BG
MetalDust @clan ENFO, Europe realm


Edit: with a votestart at 6 players, all slots open works fine aswell

[Jabba41]

@MetalDust

We can make a default mode bound to our rules, but i wanted to see how the bot works out after the changed and then we can still implement this.
A default mode will have to be choosen then and everything else has to be announced by red in the game lobby (like we have it for LTD and CF for example)

An autostart with 8 players isnt needed when you can votestart with 6 already, autostart 8v8 would end more often in 5v4 /5v3 games and delay the game from starting. You can use !votestart as soon as 6 players are ingame, easier to balance the teams then.

[MetalDust]

@Jabba41

I ment one slot in each team should be closed so the autostart fits the total amount of slots. No idea how your bots work but with GHostOne you could change this in the map config file.

Spoiler!

map_slot1 = 0 255 0 0 0 0 32 1 100
map_slot2 = 0 255 0 0 0 1 32 1 100
map_slot3 = 0 255 0 0 0 2 32 1 100
map_slot4 = 0 255 0 0 0 3 32 1 100
map_slot5 = 0 255 1 0 0 4 32 1 100
map_slot6 = 0 255 0 0 1 5 32 1 100
map_slot7 = 0 255 0 0 1 6 32 1 100
map_slot8 = 0 255 0 0 1 7 32 1 100
map_slot9 = 0 255 0 0 1 8 32 1 100
map_slot10 = 0 255 1 0 1 9 32 1 100
map_slot11 = 0 255 2 1 1 10 8 1 100
map_slot12 = 0 255 2 1 0 11 8 1 100

BG

[Jabba41]

@MetalDust For the moment we try 5v5 (votestart with 6+ players). Depending on how it works out we can reconsider closing slot 5 and 10 of course.
Thanks for your input on it.

[uakf.b]

I updated the map, gamename, and slots configuration.

[Jabba41]

@uakf.b Please remove the autoan for this bot, as this map can be played endlessly because of the rematch option.

Thanks

[uakf.b]

Disabled.

[Oezaku]

elo?

[HazarDous]

@Oezaku

You might want to post a new suggestion in regards to ELO as it might require more discussion.

Archiving this one.