What to do when the enemy did the wrong mode and his team refuses to draw

[icecreamss]

I understand the frustration of some prick screwing up the game mode. You want a draw but his teammates wants to continue playing. What will you do in this case?

I've seen countless of players, even those high elo players started saying that drawing is mandatory cause of wrong mode. Drawing is NEVER mandatory no matter that is the circumstances! So by saying that it is, you are lying about rules!

So what should you do when you meet this problem?

Simply apply the most OP rules in all ent rules: "You are obligated to !votekick any player that has broken any of ENT's rules."

1. Initiate a votekick on red and state the rule he/she have broken. In this case, "unannounced mode"
2. Explain to them that they are obligated to kick and not kicking will result in a ban

Now... Just sit back, relax, and watch everything play out cause you've got them cornered like a good little puppy since they can only have 3 outcomes:
Does not fulfill their obligations to votekick a rule breaker and get a ban
Fulfill their obligations, and chooses continue playing 3v4 in which you have both the lumber advantage and +1 heal
Fulfill their obligations, and chooses to !draw own their own free will (you can even undraw! and make them beg you)

Moral of the story? Learn the rules, they are your greatest advantage! (but pls do draw and don't be a prick to use rules to gain an unfair advantage)
Cheers.

[HazarDous]

Do not abuse !votekick: its only purpose is to kick game ruinners who violate ENT's rules and negatively impact the game for either or both teams in the game.

If you aren't actively ruining the game, you shall not be kicked.

Entering a wrong mode is indeed breaking a rule, but does not warrant a votekick. Drawing and reporting red would be the correct thing to do.

[icecreamss]

@hazardous hmmm but the rule said any ent rules though :X So it's kinda conflicting with the other

[Akitos]

Do not abuse !votekick: its only purpose is to kick game ruinners who violate ENT's rules and negatively impact the game for either or both teams in the game.

If you aren't actively ruining the game, you shall not be kicked.

Entering a wrong mode is indeed breaking a rule, but does not warrant a votekick. Drawing and reporting red would be the correct thing to do.

Is there a closer definition of what a "game ruinner" is? I don't think there is, and in that case I'd assume it simply is a player who's having a negative impact on the gaming experience of others (that's what I'd call game ruinning, generally speaking). Choosing an unannounced non default mode is certainly having a negative on my gaming experience (if I was in the game). This means that red is a game ruinner who violated an ENT rule. And since the unannounced mode stays for the entire game, the negative impact on the game for all players who didn't want this mode remains intact. Thus he has had a negative impact that cannot be undone. So if that doesn't fall under the votekick rule, then you clearly need a better wording on that one

[HazarDous]

The game could still be played, that's all you have to consider. In that case, red wasn't negatively impacting it any further. Kicking was not an appropriate option as it would only make the game worse.

Re-phrasing of the following rule will be considered, though.

"You are obligated to !votekick any player that has broken any of ENT's rules."

[eldryan]

Yes, the rule has long been standing as "votekick anyone who breaks the rules". If someone is allowed to cheat to win (eg. MH in game), and you can't votekick because they aren't "ruining the game", that seems rather weak...

[FalenGa]

If someone is allowed to cheat to win (eg. MH in game), and you can't votekick because they aren't "ruining the game", that seems rather weak...

Map hack can only be confirmed after watching the replay. In most games, there are people complaining about map hack, when there is none.

Allowing people to votekick someone because they believe he is map hacking would cause unnecessary chaos.

[aRt)Y]

@hazardous hmmm but the rule said any ent rules though :X So it's kinda conflicting with the other

The important word is the "and". Violating a rule is one thing. Also negatively affecting the game is another thing.

Both together allow players to votekick. The issue we have here is
* to stress that votekick is mandatory if someone ruins the game (in whatever way)
* to make clear you dont have to votekick if it isnt necessary (minor stuff)

To ensure both scenarios are covered, we have phrased it the way it is. Besides, you cant just pick one sentance from the page. It has to be read as a whole. Choosing the wrong mode is indeed a rule violation but hardly a game ruin, imo, as the game could be potentially played on. Hence, the "and negatively affecting the game/game ruin".

[LTDNorb]

Depends on the mode how much game ruining it is imo.
If someone thinks to put in -hpns or so, when you can see opponent side (no fog of war), no-save pretty much forces the game to go to lvl 31+ and he chooses something like Lich as builder (with no cb), you cannot save-send cause of no-save, etc. Gonna be honest, I would leave that game if no draw happens. I wont force myself to endure a shitty game for close to 2 hours.

[icecreamss]

@hazardous hmmm but the rule said any ent rules though :X So it's kinda conflicting with the other

The important word is the "and". Violating a rule is one thing. Also negatively affecting the game is another thing.

Both together allow players to votekick. The issue we have here is
* to stress that votekick is mandatory if someone ruins the game (in whatever way)
* to make clear you dont have to votekick if it isnt necessary (minor stuff)

To ensure both scenarios are covered, we have phrased it the way it is. Besides, you cant just pick one sentance from the page. It has to be read as a whole. Choosing the wrong mode is indeed a rule violation but hardly a game ruin, imo, as the game could be potentially played on. Hence, the "and negatively affecting the game/game ruin".

Yes Arty i see that your are referring to this rule:
Do not abuse !votekick: its only purpose is to kick game ruinners who violate ENT's rules and negatively impact the game for either or both teams in the game.

However i was actually referring to the next one that says:
You are obligated to !votekick any player that has broken any of ENT's rules. If someone or several indicate that a particular player is game ruining, you, as a player in the game, are obligated to question/check about the situation/claim.

Which the latter stated "any" ent rules.

Not questioning your authority here cause you definitely will be right cause you made the rules Just that I think that with that particular line of rule there, I won't be wrong to initiate a votekick :X

[aRt)Y]

My post also indicated that you should read the rules as whole. We will not begin nit-picking rules which are votekick-able and which arent. It will create scenarios where players could exploit the fact a rule violation is not votekick-able and ruin the game that way.

tl;dr; people should use their brain and common sense if they make use of a powerful tool such as votekick. And as usual, communicate your decision either in ally or all chat so the staff knows about it.

[eldryan]

If someone is allowed to cheat to win (eg. MH in game), and you can't votekick because they aren't "ruining the game", that seems rather weak...

Map hack can only be confirmed after watching the replay. In most games, there are people complaining about map hack, when there is none.

Allowing people to votekick someone because they believe he is map hacking would cause unnecessary chaos.

you can tell fog-clicks pretty obviously. ditto antistuck abuse in 3.5 beta.

[FalenGa]

@eldryan

you can tell fog-clicks pretty obviously.

How can you tell a fog click in-game?

[eldryan]

by playing LTD. viewtopic.php?f=13&t=67912&p=273547&hilit=fog+click+fog+click+ltd#p273547

[FalenGa]

@eldryan
Well, for starters, there is currently no valid FCD that we know of. The old ones are outdated, full of bugs and completely unreliable. Which is why an FCD proven fog click is not valid evidence for ENT. It has to be confirmed with DRM, which can only be done once the game is over.

If you do know of a valid FCD, it would be greatly appreciated if you could share it with us.

Secondly, using an FCD in-game is against our rules, for most of our games. Yes, LTD would be one of the exceptions, since it wouldn't really make a difference.
However, the current LTD mega map is self sufficient on that matter.

So, in the end, map hack can only be confirmed with DRM, when the game is over.