ENT Gaming

For context, everything I say is about Legion TD Mega. What I say may be entirely inaccurate for 1200+, and I wouldn't know it since I don't and can't play there. This however isn't suitable reason in my opinion to justify completely disregarding the points made.

Not saying it's the best unit 1-31.

Not saying it's unconquerable.

Not saying it's even the best 1-10. (though I feel like it probably is)

It's just that the elite archer meta has been stable for so long and is such a staple that pretty much everyone and their cat can do it with their eyes closed and it's (debatably) one of the best units for either hard early push or strong hold potential from 1-14.

I don't want them to be useless. I don't want them to be gone. But let's look at some other highlights:

Thunderbirds - Had ability that caused typeless damage to two additional targets, got buffed in a patch (don't even know how precisely, think attack speed?) which made them really strong, possibly best unit in the game. Few patches later, ability got changed to magic damage, now they are pretty much only very niche for heavy armor rounds like 15 but not even that common built for that since there are better options.

Malformations - Had ability that caused massive damage post-death to nearby enemies, completely eclipsing ToK except for certain waves. Free wave 10 hold and arena victory guaranteed. Got nerfed soon after to have ability last less time which means it now is only arena win in certain matchups, though still strong there, and only good on 10 if the send isn't too big. (though this was sometimes true with old one too) Now is only a decent unit. (I think this balancing was done better than TBs, but still maybe a little over harsh)

Anyway I don't have a lot of other examples, those two are pretty much it, but it still illustrates the point that when a unit is considered imbalanced, it gets fixed. The main gripe I have against archers is that they are used quite often as a forceful way to say "We are crossing and I am the value", which I don't especially appreciate, and they are pretty hard to send against before 10, which they usually have enough income to render useless anyway by maxing the king, forcing the game to go to 12 or 14, which may be forced 14 by king ability (thorns), which can then just completely make games unwinnable against them if nobody has appropriate anti 12 and 13 units. Now by no means do I claim this is completely the Archer's fault. It is also the fault of the team playing against them for not having a diverse enough lineup, but it happens quite often that there will be a cross on one side and the other side has one player who is weaker and merges into the other, so with two damage types (talking about most builds here which focus on one core unit usually at least until wave 10) it is quite hard to be prepared to hold 12, 13 and not be afraid of them on 14.

Mostly archers are just too flexible, they allow strong push and strong holding simultaneously.

I don't have a great suggestion to what should be done. One idea could be to reduce the number of targets they hit to 4, limiting their potential as a catch-all unit. Another could be to reduce their hitpoints, so they aren't able to be spammed solely and hold everything. Another could be to increase the gold cost again, to something like 60/170, since I would argue they are quite comparable to the power level of a Pyro anyway. (realistically way, way stronger, but there a lot of factors going into that)

Yeah. I admit, they aren't out of control imbalanced. They are stale though, you have to admit. I would much appreciate to see them a bit less in the spotlight, even just for a while.

Cheers!

I totally support removing or nerfing elite archer cos it is:
1) No brainer-if u have ea in the roll u play it and it doesnt matter what other towers are in your roll or on which lvls your teammates are weak cos ea is always best choice. Imo in strategy games like ltd there should be no choices that are corret in literaly every situation, player should be forced to think which unit fit best to team composition.
2) Mere existence of elite archer in enemy team is often enough to deny option to send on lvl 12 13 16 cos ea can hold these rounds even if played mediocre or a bit below that level. There is no other tower which can cover so many lvls in midgame even when played badly. Most of 1200+ games ends on lvl 15 and ea is one reason why there is not much variety.
3) Ea is easy and boring to play-there are not much good adds for ea in early game and basicly all adds that exists are tanks for freeholding 7. There are no hard lvls for ea, even aqua which is super easy to play has some problems with lvl9 which force players to mix.

Imo best option would be total removal of ea and itroducement of brand new unit but I would apreciate even if ea was only nerfed.

Superb comment, like the input and you make excellent points that I missed. The no-brain part is so frustrating. When I get EA with other units I like I often try to play them because I prefer variety, and sometimes I even get flamed for that! It should be my choice, if I am playing decent!

They are certainly the most popular build, allowing for great holding and superior lumber management. But I have to say this:
1. Everyone knows the EA meta, so if the enemy team spots it, they will know how to behave too.
2. Even if you might not kill, sending at 7 against EA has great advantages.
3. The corresponding overpush of EA strategy also comes with its typical downsides.

So all in all a balance is reached by the widespread knowledge of the EA build. No need to adjust that and other classics.

I don't question the balance. Sure, maybe it is balanced. I would argue it isn't, but whatever, that's not my point of this thread. My point is to argue that it's boring and I'd prefer if the oldest trick in the book got a rework or a rebalance. I'm tired of Archers being the unit that allows you to force your lane partner to cross with you even if they had something they wanted to build.

U want to remove archers because they are boring ?

Lets remove then ygg also, harlot, many other units, which people (in mega and 1200) usually plays standard.

But u have to realise, there are so many different ways to play it, mix it, whatever. U just cant get familiar with that in mega.

Also, u cant compare ea with old malf, or old thunderbird. Those were BROKEN units. U almost couldnt win against those if enemy has 2 lanes with it. One thing is broken unit, whole other is a good unit. Ea is not a broken unit, and fyi, it was already nerfed. So now its just a regular unit which is easy to break, and not really such big "game-changer" unit.

They are boring because of what was already stated by others:

If a player gets archer there is no better choice. It doesn't matter what else they have in their roll, and it doesn't matter what his teammates built. It's always the best choice. That is the problem. That can't be said about the other units you mentioned.