Antistuck abuse on LTD 1v1 bot

[skillerinstinct]

Hello,

lately many people on the 1v1 bot do build in the middle and antistuck at the spawn of the wave, so that some creeps caught the corner, get in front and can be killed one by one. I think this is even allowed currently, but ofcourse it is unfair and a glitch abuse in fact.

So I am asking to prohobit this.

[nabo.]

I agree to this suggestion.

But as u said, it is an allowed act to antistuck creeps. I remember someone used antistuck on boss round to gain advantage.

Using antistuck is not a skill, but we allow the use of it for catching leaks when cross building in pub games, but then again its 1v1 where skill matters more.

@junzzi wat u think?

[skillerinstinct]

@nabo Yes, it is just a very bad habit.

BTW is there a thread somewhere or so with the current AS rules in LTD pub bots? I don't even know if it is allowed to AS openent side at the moment.

[JunZzi]

Currently, it is allowed, But i've noticed that it's becoming a problem in 1v1, Abusing the mechanism to gain advantage.

I completely agree with skiller, that we shouldn't allow the use of AS to gain the advantage that the 1v1 people are trying to gain.

But i think we should still allow normal AS, ETC, Level 10.

@nabo. @iightfyre Your thoughts?


@skillerinstinct

Right now your not allowed to anti-stuck the opposite side, Or Anti stuck to send the allies units back to the middle to try and catch more leaks for your self.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=4#p20208

[Mercy]

I support this. When he brought it up to me, I told him to come here.

I think level 10 makes sense, but since I personally do not use these things in an advantageous way (if at all), I can understand his frustrations.

Like I said, I support this.

[nabo.]

I do not know how lihl view the use of anti stuck on one's own creeps.

Personally, as the name suggests, anti stuck simply is a button I should be only using when creeps are "stuck" or "not moving". But, we allow use of anti to catch team leak, etc...it has become another "skill" or "strategy" perhaps...

I think lihl and ltd mods should come to an agreement in defining the use of anti on creep and may be elaborate a bit more since there have been quite a few people asking if the use of anti on creep or boss is against the rule or not in games esp. 1v1 games:

-Is it an abuse of glitch/mechanic?
Or
-Is it part of how anti is suppose to be used for?

@iightfyre @junzzi @isis

[Mercy]

I feel that as shouldn't be used unless a unit is stuck. If a person asks to be anti'd I think that'd be acceptable as well so they can catch the leak, otherwise I feel it's an abuse of the function.

[JunZzi]

There's no way we can implement a new rule for no AS Use. unless creeps are actually stuck. If you scan every game, someone is ASing, We will be banning a big portion of the LTD Community. We have allowed it for all these months, It's not causing no harm using it the normal way people are.


I'm all for prohibiting the use of AS to get the creeps to cut the corner, But not regular AS.


@nabo.

AS Is not allowed in LIHL, Unless the creeps are actually stuck.

What do you mean by this:?

I think lihl and ltd mods should come to an agreement in defining the use of anti on creep and may be elaborate a bit more since there have been quite a few people asking if the use of anti on creep or boss is against the rule or not in games esp. 1v1 games:

[nabo.]

@junzzi.
"Antistuck
Can only be used on your side of the map only.
Cannot be used to kill steal leaks from your teammate (you can use it if your teammate is dead)
Cannot be used to delay units from returning to the king."

When I said elaborate I meant the first part. Whether it is an acceptable play to use AS on creeps, at 10, etc etc on ur side of the map. Depending on how u guys think, we will have to clarify, or add another rule, or void this suggestion, or apply it only for 1v1.

[iightfyre]

I think that we should not change the rules. Pubs are pubs for a reason and we already have a list of rules that we need to monitor. Adding in a new clause on Anti Stuck to make it "only sometimes" or "not on your creeps" will lead to a few issues.

1. The community will be unaware of the change for a considerable amount of time and we will have to be babysit the transition period which may take months (reference the "juggling" rule change and how many people still do not know about it - this is even more gray and widespread)
2. Mods will have to use another 3rd party application that can check AS usage and we will be even more consumed in brq's and watching replays.
3. The brq and appeal section will get cluttered with work - remember that a LOT of people have the habit of using AS on their creeps. We are not talking about 5% of the community. I assume that 50% or more of pub players click AS on a regular basis.
4. It is hard for the average player to determine if AS is being used. We will get a lot of false accusations and the vast majority of offenders will never see a brq. It's too hard to monitor and most players will continue to abuse this mechanic with virtually no fear of getting caught. (reference the LIHL - we catch players infrequently, but even with routine scans of EVERY game - a lot of players have gotten away with it for a long time)

Please keep these points in mind when making this decision. I do not support the idea of adding a new rule. This is far too complicated of a mechanic to monitor effectively.

[Strikest]

@iightfyre
So you support letting other players get an unfair advantage against players who do not wish to abuse bugs?

[aRt)Y]

@iightfyre It takes mods or players 3 seconds or less to get a full list of all AS ingame. You just gotta know which tools to use.

I agree with you tho that the rule has to be more generalized. Having a certain amount of specific cases where AS is allowed or not can become kinda troublesome for the pubs.

Perhaps something like "AS forbidden everywhere except to unstuck own units". I dont know the current details about the AS rules but I hope you get my point.

[I_kill_satan]

It seems like player can detect this type of enemys glitched AS also easy even without any special program - just look replay, creeps go corner or not.

[aRt)Y]

^ and how long is that supposed to take? Do you think a mod has 30-40 minutes time to watch a replay without knowing where an antistuck with a duration of a few milliseconds will happen? Sounds.. legit.

[JunZzi]

I'm also against this being pushed forward as a rule. Arty is correct it is easy to see when people AS, But the amount of people that will have to be baned, I think outways having this as a rule. The LTD Community, Is use to being able to AS, I don't think it will be worth it to ban all these players, for something that we allowed for so long.