Microing King to not attack units

[Bond009]

Now i know you cant use the King to not attack units to prolong a game for income abuse etc as a general rule..

But in certain situations I think this is an ok thing to do, for example if your ally leaked and you arnt done killing your lane's units yet so your units don't go down to catch them in time from delay or the game being stupid with not sending units down right away. I think its fine to micro the king to not kill the units until your units get down to kill the leaks so that you don't have to share your units gold with the enemy team.
It the one thing u can micro and control in the game and i think using it in this way is fine, am i right?

[JunZzi]

Your allowed to switch which creeps the king attacks.

But you have to allow the king to attack, You cannot switch creeps to fast, thus making the king not attack at all.

[Bond009]

but why not? In this case it seems like a viable strategy since its not to just waste time to abuse time with incoming its just to deny the enemy team gold from leaks that your units will come down to kill. It seems like a fair strat and a smart thing to do.. lol

[nabo.]

King juggle or king dance is bannable.

This act of juggle or dance happens when a player in control of the king changes target continuously and fast clicking mad, thus the king not able to complete its full attk motion, thus preventing king from attacking. This act is an abuse of king's attk motion stalling time for intense gain of lumber or leaks depending on situation.

As long as the king keeps attacking, u may change target any way u want- a strategy to catch leaks and not allow opponent to get king bonus gold.
(However, once all creeps have low hp or are one hit, u must kill with king).

[supersexyy]

It seems like a fair strat and a smart thing to do.

'Fair' is debatable. If you leak to king then the king should kill the leaks.
'Smart' - king juggling for 6 hours can be considered 'smart'. Doesn't make it right.

[iightfyre]

@bond009

Leaking to the middle is part of the risk that you assume when you cross build. Sharing the bounty is the penalty for not properly executing the cross build. If you want to prevent sharing the bounty with the opponent; juggling the king is not the appropriate way to do this. Instead, try to not leak the units to the middle in the first place. A good cross build is one that doesn't leak to the middle - this takes skill and the reward is keeping all of your gold from bounty.

I do not foresee this rule being changed.

[Bond009]

Leaking to the middle is part of the risk that you assume when you cross build. Sharing the bounty is the penalty for not properly executing the cross build. If you want to prevent sharing the bounty with the opponent; juggling the king is not the appropriate way to do this. Instead, try to not leak the units to the middle in the first place. A good cross build is one that doesn't leak to the middle - this takes skill and the reward is keeping all of your gold from bounty.

I do not foresee this rule being changed.

I can understand this and i agree mostly but what if you are going solo and your pub mates are crossing and you are also crossing so you kill your stuff but their leaking bad, i mean why should half the team suffer when there is something you can micro to buy yourselves a few extra seconds you need. I mean the king is the only controllable unit for a reason.

'Fair' is debatable. If you leak to king then the king should kill the leaks.
'Smart' - king juggling for 6 hours can be considered 'smart'. Doesn't make it right.

And i dont mean for like minutes-hours, just a few seconds. and attacking a different unit each hit also works to a point.. but depending what lvl it is and how upped the king is etc..
Anyway i dont really care too deeply about this, i only want to point out there is a gray area here and with this situation i dont think there is always a clear right or wrong. In most cases yeah its abuse but in this situation its not really. Its abuse when everyone leaks and u can sit there and stall a lvl forever but when there is units that are coming i feel its one of those things that's viable..

I do not foresee this rule being changed.

Also sometimes rules are made without seeing 1 little fair window that it can be alright and acceptable.. eh maybe only on ranged levels it can be fair and only if you have units left alive that are on the way? It just sucks when you have to carry a pub team and you arnt allowed to do everything in your power to kill the leaks with your units and deny the stacked enemy team free gold because of dumb circumstances.

[Krumme]

I don't see any grey area at all
Switching target with king so fast it can't hit is banable no matter what the reason might be (quite simply actually)
If we are talking seconds why even bother "juggling" the king since it will only be few gold we talk about here
This game is a team game and if both sides don't work together the other team will benefit/win from it - so make it clear to your ENTIRE team to try and prevent units from reaching king (delay's etc.)
Use the things you are allowed to use instead of trying to bend some of the already made rules

[JunZzi]

Use the things you are allowed to use instead of trying to bend some of the already made rules

This sums it up. This is not a gray area, Do NOT Juggle the King.

[Bond009]

Use the things you are allowed to use instead of trying to bend some of the already made rules

But thats the whole reason i brought it up because its a flawed rule with loop holes that haven't been fully thought out. In reality there is nothing wrong with stalling the kings attacks till the units get down to fight.
The game was made in a certain way and you are already making rules to fix/prevent things broken about it correct? well the way units move down is also flawed and broken sometimes and the units are retarded and dont move down sometimes, so this is a viable strategy to get around that shitty method of unit movement in this game no matter if u like it or not im right.

I tried helping HuanAk back in the day with how to fix this mechanical limitation problem in the wc3 gaming engine but he didn't want to put the time in. so countering that problem with something u guys put a rule to prevent is a perfectly fine thing to do and the fact is when used in this way it doesn't hurt the game in anyway and is a fair tactic. I cant help if you don't agree but everything i stated here is 100% true.

Its especially acceptable if you micro the king to not attack the units when the leaks go up to fight the army units that finally came down but are still in range of the kings attacks. At this point there is no reason to allow the king to attack those units that are fighting the army because of bad mechanics unless you want the king to.

But like i said just tryin to help out for the good of the game/bot. If you guys want to give blinded 1 way answers then i can see we are done discussing here.

[Krumme]

Problem is not that you are not correct in some of the things you say the problem is the line between legal and not
If we change the rule to what you want it to there will be a grey area which some people will fully abuse and push which in the end will cause more problems than it will solve
Letting people control king as they want.. well that's just stupid - if you know how "HighestIncome" got his highestincome record it's quite simple up regen as much as possible and then juggle king for as long as you can - in theory infinite juggling and thus infinite income which makes the game completely different and unwanted

I hope this puts another perspective in to it BOND - not said that yours isn't a great way of thinking but I don't think it's fit for ENT public ltd games

[Strikest]

I think Bond brings up a good point when leaks are fighting allied units—you don't want the king attacking and potentially giving the enemy team gold. Also this won't be abuse, because once the allied units die the king must attack.

[Feor]

I think Bond brings up a good point when leaks are fighting allied units—you don't want the king attacking and potentially giving the enemy team gold. Also this won't be abuse, because once the allied units die the king must attack.

Usually the allied units and the leaks are fighting outside of King's range.
But even if on some rare occasions there are units in range , you can use that in your advantage , good king micro can help you lower down all creeps for your defending towers to finish them off.

Whatever Bond is trying to say makes no sense. He wants to allow a glitch mechanic of the game that for no decent reason.


Legion TD can already be a long game if both teams can play properly, imagine people juggling king in order to push lumberjacks and send harder. Will be same game time, possibly 10 less levels played.

[Bond009]

I understand what Krumme is saying and it will make it harder to police the rules on the bot etc.. that may be true but if ppl are smart enough to know of the rule "dont juggle" then they will also know when its ok i think.

I think Bond brings up a good point when leaks are fighting allied units—you don't want the king attacking and potentially giving the enemy team gold. Also this won't be abuse, because once the allied units die the king must attack.

yeah this is what i'm saying, especially on levels that are ranged like 12 or 16 or 24 etc.. once your army comes down to fight (if the king has already been fighting) then u dont want the king taking any more kills to give gold to the enemy team. And yea u can change attacks maybe but if they are too weak or the king is maxed out and too strong.. you can see where im going with this.
If anything i think that example above should be made exempt and at least allow it on ranged levels..

Whatever Bond is trying to say makes no sense. He wants to allow a glitch mechanic of the game that for no decent reason.

Legion TD can already be a long game if both teams can play properly, imagine people juggling king in order to push lumberjacks and send harder. Will be same game time, possibly 10 less levels played.

If you read everything i said you would see im not trying to promote the "glitch" and i don't support the "glitching infinite income delay" this topic is not about that..

[Krumme]

I dissagree with this and tbh. it is too much work for the mods to allow it on some lvls rather than simply just keeping the 1 rule - the difference is simply too small to benefit more than it will be a problem for the mods
So no I don't think this is a good idea (pub people are in general not very clever and most of them don't visit forum (their loss)) but the rule would be too complicated to get them to understand - so I strongly recommend this wont be a change of rules