Builder Leaving In game...

[Sat]

Many arguments against this rule hinge on the Titan being good, but that is frequently not the case. Instead of saying the Titan has an easier time with fewer builders, try to understand the reality of public games, where the rule would be most useful.

JS.

[Lynx]

Public observer slots.

Can't really have that because of ghosting.

[evilmad666]

Public observer slots.

Can't really have that because of ghosting.

I'm not talking about referees, I'm talking about observers observers. Where you cannot talk, or communicate with any other players, unless another fellow observer. Also it's wrong for one to criticize that EVERYBODY is going to be "ghosting"

And again

@taboo

There's a reason for feed reductions. To balance game more when somebody dies/leaves

[aRt)Y]

Public observer slots.

Can't really have that because of ghosting.

Had a good laugh reading that. Yes, obs slots for all 10 years old.

If you invest your time learning to play, watch replays or play on another bot with your friends who explains you/shows you the things in detail rather than trying to compete in an actual game.

[Neco]

Currently the feed system does not account for leaving players / less players.

This will be changed in the next version.

[ArkaTekK]

The point is that ID was not made to be played with ELO, therefore we dont have rules for it (only for elo glitching) (thus idc) and it should not be considered. It is something people can use, yes, but they shouldn't complain about it.

Well Said





NG, NG, NG

[TimmyTheTauren]

Uh, perhaps it was not originally made with ELO, but I'll bet the first iterations of DotA and other games did not have ELO as well. They evolved and added ELO over time in order to obtain a more competitive gameplay. Just because the past versions of Island Defense haven't included an ELO system doesn't mean it can't be included in the game now.

If not having rules is a reason to have IT "not be considered", then add rules to account for it, as there are for other games. I believe Neco said he was going to include W3MMD for ELO in the next official Island Defense release, so we should start perfecting the system now.

[Neco]

Uh, perhaps it was not originally made with ELO, but I'll bet the first iterations of DotA and other games did not have ELO as well. They evolved and added ELO over time in order to obtain a more competitive gameplay. Just because the past versions of Island Defense haven't included an ELO system doesn't mean it can't be included in the game now.

If not having rules is a reason to have IT "not be considered", then add rules to account for it, as there are for other games. I believe Neco said he was going to include W3MMD for ELO in the next official Island Defense release, so we should start perfecting the system now.

Everyone on ENTs side has been very dismissive of W3MMD features so I don't think they really care about implementing any kind of competitiveness in the game to be honest.

[pandaren.]

Tbh this should not even be debatable subject none the less i see no reason why rules like builder leaving was never implemented in the game itself.

when 1 person dies it makes a mass of leavers and the remainers will double or triple base and if there are other basers left as well they would just go hide in that base for the rest of that game. If titan gets banned for crap like leaving then builders should too as well. I care for elo, but not for the fact of making others think i'm good but so that i can set a goal and accomplish it.

[Burn]

ELO will never be balanced because titan and builder is so different. Island Defense will never be made to fit the current ELO system unless there is a major remake in game-play.

If you truly want to balance ELO (or make Island Defense suited for ELO), then make a separate ELO for titan, and a separate ELO for builder, and constantly tweaking the numbers to fit the current meta.

-Burn

[aRt)Y]

Timmy: So you are really comparing ID and DotA on an elo-implemented level? ID can have ELO and it will be used once it is bug free and makes actually sense. Having a half-working and bugged ELO is nothing I support or will ENT have to care about.

So if the devs implement elo as good as for DotA, then we can talk about it. Less about elo now, please? Perhaps there're some more creative ideas (perhaps map-sided?)

[Neco]

What are the technical details required to make a seperate ELO for defenders and titans?

[TimmyTheTauren]

ID can have ELO and it will be used once it is bug free and makes actually sense.

Yes, precisely, but we need to get it to that point.

Having a half-working and bugged ELO is nothing I support or will ENT have to care about.

How is there any way to work out the kinks when you won't support it in the first place?

We need to talk more about ELO in order to get the system to a viable state for gameplay. Personally, I'd rather get this and bugs worked out fully before we even consider new game-play.

[aRt)Y]

Off topic:
You are shifting away from the main points. I would support ELO if the devs put some effort into developing it. I, however, dont see the reason having ENT as a test subject and even ban for elo-related things if they are not 100% working.
Get test maps, test it, things and balance it. Once there's a proper beta system of elo for ID, I'll do what I can to have it for ENT.

Regarding leaving, the feed system should automatically adjust and perhaps add a campaign screen for 3 seconds pleasing the players not to leave because you can still - believe it or not - win with one early mini. \o/

[Neco]

Off topic:
You are shifting away from the main points. I would support ELO if the devs put some effort into developing it. I, however, dont see the reason having ENT as a test subject and even ban for elo-related things if they are not 100% working.
Get test maps, test it, things and balance it. Once there's a proper beta system of elo for ID, I'll do what I can to have it for ENT.

It's up to the host of the game to implement ELO, since all ELO calculations are executed on the bots themselves. The map simply provides the required meta-data. That means it's ENTs duty to implement ELO if they see fit, whereas it's the devs duty to implement MMD. I've asked again and again what kind of statistics are required and always get the "uhhh... I dunno..." response.
Unless you want me to write your GHost++ plugins, then you're out of luck.

If you want proper ELO, ENT is perfectly capable of doing so.

Regarding leaving, the feed system should automatically adjust and perhaps add a campaign screen for 3 seconds pleasing the players not to leave because you can still - believe it or not - win with one early mini. \o/

Yes to the first point, the hard part is balancing. If there's a base with 2 people left, and no other defenders then just doing the naive method of making the titan gain 5x the feed will dramatically change the end-game in favor of the titan.

Second point, no. A big part of Island Defense is the lack of interruptions during gameplay. If we start chucking in cinematic screens it will interrupt everyones frame of mind and would, in my opinion, ruin the flow of the game.

Leaving games is a problem due to the fact that people don't see any consequences to doing so. There is no accountable ELO loss, or any other disincentive. This is the problem (albeit, not a really big one since the game is still fun as long as you have at least one competent baser left).