Kicking players for ELO

[Krumme]

I have no problem playing pub matches. Nor do i wish to play in lihl. Ive never heard anything but bad things about lihl. Full or cry babies, drama, etc. etc. I play for fun. Was just commenting that i didnt agree that the elo was shit. In general it is a fair ranking system for public and lihl games. But the only real accurate ranking of skill is 1v1 in my opinion. Wether it be lihl or pub, in 4v4 even the best of the best are still reliant on a team. In 1v1 its just you and your skill

I assume you check LIHL forum from time to time or hear people talk about it in public games - and no LIHL is not all about drama and people crying, actually it rarely happens in general but ofc. we do have some people than tends to do that more often.
But I suggest you go check out LIHL personally before judging

sorry for OT but just felt like LIHL needed to be defended in this conversation as it really isn't that bad as some people tend to think.

[Avatar_Ship]

godlik3:

Usually when someone with low elo jojn a game we see his stats...i am not good playin with someone that has less than 80% of stay...it means the player has a really bad conection or he just leave all games when he leaks and get mad!both of cases the player will ruin the game!
I dont vk abuse but i leave the loby before starts when i see someone that hasnt a good % on stay in game....
If only low elo its ok imo...but on another case ( % ) i think its bad for all another 7 players on game

I'm the same way. I can deal with low ELO, I can deal with someone learning, I can even deal with someone solo sending and generally being a noob. If someone has <80% say rate, it's almost guaranteed they'll leave the game, and with most people not giving draws, it's a complete waste of time. Ban me if you must, but it's the one exception I have to kicking people in lobby. Leavers ruin games.

matdas:

You can leave the lobby yourself. No need to votekick. Not sure why it is so hard to do that...

It isn't hard to do that. It's hard to find a game where there isn't at least one player like that. Which means, practically speaking, that you'll spend 10 games joining and leaving in order to find one.

[matdas]

I find 1 in 5 games a player leaves voluntarily. This player is either raging, doing horribly bad, or their elo is under 975. If you want to spend all lobby doing !stats, by all means do so. If you find their stay % to be 80% it may not just be because of LTD. There are other games such as ID, YouTD, etc that hurt players stay rates. ENT cannot control people leaving/staying games. But the autoban prevents them from rejoining when they have a certain stay % or left to many games in a row.

Voting to kick because of a number is wrong. Who's to say that they will leave that specific game? Who's to say he will stay? It's up to that specific player.

[Krumme]

@matdas having 1700+ elo doesn't come easy and if you want to grind elo you have to rely on your team - 80% stayrate or less is just not reliable most of the time - sure sometimes they don't leave or suck or w/e but most times they really do

[matdas]

I'm no stranger when it comes to teammates leaving. I understand the frustration. But everyone has the right to play. Even if they leave mid-game. They get caught by the auto-ban. Just because you want them gone doesn't make it right. There really is no reason to votekick in lobby. If you think someone is going to leave while waiting in lobby, then go next game. I do it when players from @asia join with under 15 games. I find that most of the time they leave. Everyone has their pet peeves when it comes to players. Find yours and avoid them.

I don't really care if you have 1700 elo. Everyone has the right to play the game. Would it be alright if every game that you played, you got kicked for being "to high of elo" or "to high of stay rate"? This sounds absurd, but that's how i see it. Turn what everyone thinks around. See the counter side. Is it fair to kick you for your better stay rate and elo? No. Does it ruin your day when you get kicked from a lobby because of your stats? Prolly not, cus you just go to next game. The point is, you shouldn't have to go next game. You should be able to play the game you joined on your own, without other players saying !yes to a kick because they find a number is to low.

We are a noob friendly community. Even if someone has a low stay percentage, tell them to stay in games, and if they join your game after they left one with you in it, leave the lobby. Simple form of protest against a player that you can do all on your own. Hell, grab your friends and tell them to avoid a specific player. Just don't go harassing that player.

All of this can simply be avoided by you leaving the lobby if you dislike someone's stats. They joined, you joined. You can't force a votekick on someone for something so stupid as elo and stay rate.

I also find that arguing over this is pointless. Votekicking in lobby is just wrong. There is no reason behind doing it. They are not ruining the game. If you say their stats are, then you are just plain wrong.

I could rant on and on. But I will stop here and say this: It is your choice to stay in the lobby. You do not have to stay. You do not have the right to forcibly remove someone through the votekick from the lobby based on stats, elo, stay rate, whatever. This is votekick abuse at its finest if you do so.

[Krumme]

I'm not saying what is right and what is wrong - but having 6 (or 7?) people agreeing that 1 guy should not be in the game I think it's reasonable enough that he goes next game, but as a moderator I fully agree on your perspectives.

[aRt)Y]

but as a moderator I fully agree on your perspectives.

And that's the only point which matters.

[ForsakeMe]

hmm, if in ur game joins a guy with a 100 elo, wud u let him to play in ur team? i highly doubt tho.

[Avatar_Ship]

@matdas

I find 1 in 5 games a player leaves voluntarily.

Without having kept track of the stats in the games I've played, this seems accurate to me. It may even be slightly more frequent.

If you want to spend all lobby doing !stats, by all means do so.

I don't. But if someone has an elo <900, I'll do a stats on them. If they have a stay % <90, there's a very good chance they'll leave. If it's <85%, it's almost 100% (based on my experience in playing games with them). I once ran across someone with a 60% stay rate. Can you say HELL no! Someone has an 800 ELO but a 92 stay %? No problem, I'll take them on my team. I can deal with a player who isn't good. Someone who just leaves, though, creates a disadvantage that is nearly impossible to overcome unless they leave early enough that you can merc to compensate. Even that's not ideal as merc = autoloss at lvl 31.

Bad players don't ruin games, trolls and leavers do.

There are other games such as ID, YouTD, etc that hurt players stay rates.

It doesn't matter much to me *how* the number is arrived at, but that my experience with players who have that number indicates a trend.

Voting to kick because of a number is wrong. Who's to say that they will leave that specific game? Who's to say he will stay? It's up to that specific player.

Leaving a game and abandoning your team is wrong. Trolling is wrong. I'm not really seeing how not wanting to play with someone who is virtually guaranteed to ruin your game by leaving falls on the "wrong" side of the equation. I don't pick and choose my teammates based on ELO. That's why my ELO fluctuates anywhere from 900 to 1700. The vast majority of my losses come from someone else a) leaving the game b) not healing when they should. I get that noobs are part of a public bot, and I have no prob with someone learning and trying. I'll take someone willing to try any day over a quitter.

(said in my best drill sergeant voice) I got no time for quitters.

[Avatar_Ship]

@matdas:

I don't really care if you have 1700 elo. Everyone has the right to play the game. Would it be alright if every game that you played, you got kicked for being "to high of elo" or "to high of stay rate"? This sounds absurd, but that's how i see it. Turn what everyone thinks around. See the counter side.

Ummmmm. Why would anyone kick a good and/or reliable player from their team? I'm not understanding your logic here.

And if "everyone" has a right to play, why have rules and bans at all? In fact, by autobanning leavers, you are already setting the precedent that leaving is wrong and will be punished. If we weren't meant to see someone's stay rate, then !stats wouldn't exist.

If you're going to be a leaver, then it's just further punishment that many people don't want you in their game. Who knows, maybe if that happens to someone, they'll figure out that what they do isn't acceptable and perhaps change how they behave.

I also find that arguing over this is pointless.

I didn't see this as an argument, but more of a conversation.

Votekicking in lobby is just wrong. There is no reason behind doing it. They are not ruining the game. If you say their stats are, then you are just plain wrong.

I thought we'd stated reasons for doing it. They may not be reasons you like or agree with, but they are reasons.

You say they aren't ruining the game. I say leaving the game ruins it. You are, of course, free to hold your opinion, as I am mine.

[aRt)Y]

Not sure what we are arguing about here.

ENT is a place for all players - whether bad or good. The question if kicking players for low elo is allowed, can easily be answered with no.

ENT moderators are supposed to enforce the rules which were designed to protect players in such cases.

[Avatar_Ship]

No argument here, just conversation.